Don't like the sound of that either (LoL)!

"The lake of fire is a place of purification, not punishment."

Tell that to anybody who happens to be IN the lake....

Wouldn't that mean the sacrfice Jesus made on the cross to be less than adequate if you are in need of something else to enter heaven? (this question does not mean I endorse or refute the idea of a pit of fire).

bjbbjohn: You're right. No one likes being corrected, especially when it takes time to learn the lesson being taught. Heb 12:11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

sebekm: AMEN!! We've all been there!

up2: NO. In fact, Christ did it all for us. Paul tells us in Rom 5:9-10 "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, MUCH MORE, being reconciled, we shall be SAVED by his life."; not by believing, but by His life. 2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling THE WORLD Himself, not imputing THEIR trespasses unto THEM; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. "Impute" means to reckon or to take into account. So, not only has the entire world been reconciled to God through the death of Christ, but He doesn't even hold us accountable for our sins!!! Why? Because Christ took away the sin of the world as John the Baptist so clearly put it. That's why He's called the Savior of the world, as the Apostle John testifies: 1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. Friends, He is the Savior of the entire world and He will not fail to save us all.

So why judgment? Just like it says above in Heb 12:11 "...later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it." And that fruit of righteousness is being conformed to the very image of our Savior Himself! And I'm sure you'll all agree; we need conforming and correction! No one likes discipline or correction/chastening. But we need it! Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." Rom 8:29 For whom he did FOREKNOW, he also did predestinate TO BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Gal 4:19 my little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of childbirth UNTIL CHRIST IS FORMED IN YOU! And we know that this is the purpose from the very beginning: Gen 1:26-27 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...." So God created man in his own image.

Whom did God NOT foreknow? NO ONE. Good grief, He's our Creator, so of course, He foreknows those whom He created.

Also, note that the ministry today should be that we have all, everyone, been reconciled to God!! Wouldn't that be a great sermon on a Sunday morning. That is what is called "good news" or the gospel.

That's how I see it.

I never said anything about judgement. Never disputed it. Never said God does not attempt to corrus when we have strayed. What I said was if you need anything to make you ready\acceptable for heaven then you cannot say that Jesus' death and resurrection was enough. apparently more is required.
quoting bible verses which have NOTHING to do with my orginal premiss is not helpful.

Not getting in this again... One arguement made by Deo seems to contradict the other and my brain tissue isn't up for it...

I'm sorry, I thought my point was rather clear. We can't save ourselves. Thus the quotes of Rom and 2Cor showing that He did it. But once we come to know the Lord, He's not finished with us. That's why I quoted Gen, Rom and Heb to show that His plan is to change us from the inside, to be conformed to the Father and Christ. Eph 5:1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.

still side stepping

It does get confusing!

It must be me!! Sorry.

But as always, it's food for thought.

I don't think it is just you, I think it is all of us with different beliefs... The bible (word) is an important part of alot of people's lives... And growing up with one way of belief, the desire to accept change is not necessarily something that most want to do... So to get people to see it from your view point is going to be an overwhelming task...

You're exactly rignt, WHL! Until God opens our eyes to see any truth, we can't see it.