I like to know what you been smoking, cause it has altered the world around you. I own land in Long County and Liberty County, so I try to stay informed. It takes more taxes to educate and to care for animals than to humanely euthanize. Now that I have all of the anti-euthanize people pissed off, ill continue. There is a huge stray and unmaintained animal population in both counties. Those that take there beloved pets to the shelter and are refused leave then on the side of the road, in the rural areas. Hungry, confused, and frightened animals can be a hazard to people. In both physical confrontations and in the area of general public safety. I hate that my wife and kids ended up slung into a field or into trees because of a stray or unmaintained animal runs in front of her while shes driving. She would swerve to miss the animal than hit it. Only way there is to do it right is to set limits on ownership, registration of animals, and enforce ordinances and laws to have people care for their beloved animals. Will it happen, into days economy maybe not, why is someone going to pay extra tax dollars, for bigger shelters, when they are family's being kicked out of homes because of layoffs, furloughs, and rising costs. I basically believe if you buy a pet, its part of your family, care for it till it dies, don't throw it away like garbage. And if you can't care for it, put it to sleep, rather than let it suffer. That is all.

G61, it does work maybe just not where everyone is kin to the authorities. I know it works in Florida & Virginia. It pays the authorities salaries as well as other programs for the animals medical care. Tax money won't be paying for it, sorry a$$ people's money through the courts will. Less money in their pocket may keep them from spending it on drugs and out of Lake George. Georgia is twenty years behind time. They need to step it up and deal with the redneck trash on a professional level, instead of a good ole' boy level...

Rubberman, I don't like the idea of euthanizing period (unless it's the humans doing it), but until the situation is put under control there's no alternatives for the ones that can't be housed somehow. One thing I would like to add to your comment. Is if you can't care for an animal, then you shouldn't be so self serving as to get one for yourself or play toy for your kids. Kids are not responsible enough to know how to fully care for an animal and unless the adult is willing to help the child with the animal, don't do it! All your doing is teaching your kids to be just as irresponsible and self serving as you are...

hmm

I'm so tired of hearing all this stuff about dogs and rodents! Just let nature be. People need to stop playing god and taking animals lives and trying to cut their bodies to stop reproduction. Animals are habitual to the outdoors.. We on the other hand, if anything are intruders upon their land.

I think California now has mandatory spay and neuter. You could try researching the numbers of pets seized by animal control or dropped off at shelters since the law was enacted and see if they have come down significantly.

I think a law like this would be enforced the same way an animal license law or a rabies vaccine law would be.

Rubbberman,

I am with you but you forgot to add that, if one calls the authorities here in Long County about a stray or out-of-control animal, the advice they give is to shoot it, since there is no animal control department here.

The whole situation in both counties is beyond ridiculous but even a blind man can see that, once people are put in the position of shooting pets, there will just be further problems because those who lost the "beloved" pet they couldn't be bothered to keep safe will get revenge on the person who shot it--which will no doubt lead to further problems as the circle of revenge continues.

Oh well, as usual, I am left wondering what Long County actually does for the people who live here, why it continues to exist as an entity, etc. Sigh.

Ginger1961,
I respect your post so please understand that before I continue.

We all are aware of the problems our counties face with peoplenot being responsible for the pets they are suppose to take care. Your question of how do we enforce the new ordinance is valid and it will be a difficult one.

Will it solve the overall problem? Perhaps not but I bet it will save a lot of pets and it will certainly hold people more responsible. Do you not agree?

Rubberman,
Tax dollars do not fund Liberty Humane Shelter. They are non-profit and run off of donations. Tax dollars only fund animal control.

I am sure that the Humane Shelter would not be responsible for the operation of this program, the licensing of animals falls under the Animal Control branch, which is paid for by taxpayers.
The Animal Control office has not enforced the rabies and license laws for the past 10 years, they are short staffed to do the job they have now so where would they get the manpower and time to do more work? I agree that the strays and feral cats are a huge problem in this county and in Long County but mandating spays and neutering for the people that spend the money and time to take care of thier pets is not the solution. Watch out I see what is next on the horizon which will be breed bans lets see how many people jump on that band wagon?
FYI California has proposed this law several times and it has yet to be passed, the last time the lawmakers did not want to lose the money from the AKC shows in the state so it died. The state of GA hosts many dog shows in several venues and major touraments from a variety of Kennel Clubs do you really think the state will want to lose the revenue these show generate? They should be sending that back to care for the unwanted pet population rather than lining thier pockets with it.

Ginger,

Perhaps if the law enforcement community would try enforcing laws pertaining to dogs off leash, animals which are a nuisance, or any other animals found to be in violation of any municipal, county, or state law--and COLLECT THE FINES due to the government as a result of these violations, there would be enough money, eh?

Morgantom
The problem that exsits is not from the owners who care for the pets they own, it is from the back yard want to be breeders, who do not provide vet care for the animals they own, how would anyone account for all those animals. If you don't get a rabies vaccine for your animals who will know you have it?
I should not be forced to pay the price for those who don't abide by the rules just because I own an unaltered champion dog that I choose to show and breed responsibly.

Ginger, could you not defray some of that cost when you sell litters?

I also own purebred animals and I figure in all associated costs when I calculate their monetary worth. I figure that, since I pay more than average for them, anyone else should do the same when purchasing a quality animal of any species.

Although many will disagree with me, including people I consider friends, I do not believe that there is a such thing as breeding responsibly.
I personally feel that Gerard Butler and Hugh Jackman are very fine physical specimens and as much as it would probably tickle me to see them paraded around looking their best in a show ring, I certainly don't feel the need to breed them (dirty jokes aside) just to keep their line going - especially when the James McAvoys and Hal Sparks of the world are every bit as worthy of the attention and certainly of life.
I once wanted to be a breeder because I was absolutely smitten with German Shepherd Dogs. Then I realized the things that it contributed to and will never want that again.

The trouble is, erin, that while just about any dog is suitable for a pet, not every dog is suited for every kind of work. That is why different breeds of domestic animals were developed in the first place.

I gave up any hopes of breeding dogs when I saw the sorry shape too many dogs in this area are in most of the time. In the many years I have lived here, I have sold two dogs and it was a hair-puller of an experience. It was just so dificult to make sure they were going to good homes. I might buy more purebred dogs but, for the time being, I don't plan to breed or sell any.

I have total empathy with Ginger, though. I had not planned on spaying any of my dogs for a while and have a good fence but, sadly, there are people around here with dogs who are able to get through my fence and I don't want puppies sired by their dogs.

I have warned these dog owners repeatedly and have been told by the county I can shoot said dogs but it is just easier for me to have mine spayed than to have my irresponsible neighbors crying about how I shot dearest Fluffy for no reason at all! I should say, though, that the situation is so aggravating that I have been sorely tempted more than once and I totally understand why some people give up and start taking aim.

It isn't fair that people like me and like Ginger have to shell out the $$ because too many people can't figure out how to act like grown-ups--but then no one said life would be fair!

Erin, while I am aware of the multiple unwanted dogs in the world there are those of us who know exactly what we want in our dogs and want to know the lines our dog came from. My first dog purchased at a pet store came to me with hip dysplasia and heart murmers, I can not tell you the money that we spent on her to keep her healthy and happy, along with hip surgery. I also own a cat from the shelter and a rescue dog that are spayed and neutered My first dog was spayed due to her health issues. When I purchased my show puppy I got a dog that I know her entire history, I know her parents and their parents any health issues or behavior issues. Responsible breeding helps to provide education into genetic diseases and disorders specific to the breed. There are responsible breeders, those of us who screen our adopters and provide a life long support system to them, along with the ability to ensure that the breed we support is being enhanced by the cross we carefully choose.
I co own two breeding dogs of those both are three years old and have only produce two litters between them. All of our puppies are sold before a breeding even takes place and we have a waiting list for our upcoming litter.
Our dogs are the ones out there in search and rescue teams, performace venues and at dog shows, they do not live in kennels but in our homes, they do not whelp puppies in pens in the back yard , they receive top notch vet care, clearances for hips, elbows and eyes.
I can assure you that one of our dogs has never ended up in a shelter or unwanted, along with that we support our breed rescue group and foster and care for those other breeders who do not take the pains we do with our litters.
Yes there are responsible breeders out there who do not make money on the backs of thier dogs but who promote and educate people on the breed they choose to own and to take the time to know what cross of dogs will better our breed.

I never said you didn't care about or take care of your animals. Nor did I imply that breeders don't also adopt mutts. I have known some very good people who also breed animals and that will always be a point of disagreement between us. I don't believe in breeding animals any more than I believe in breeding specific people for specific results and then selling their offspring. I believe that it is completely unnecessary and does far more harm than good.

Erin, I agree with you and you all can get pi$$ed at me too. Breeding animals is wh*reing them for self-gain by whatever way you want to describe your reason for it...

That being said, it is my personal feelings and not of the subject at hand. If one makes the choice to breed then they should have to account for every one of the animals in the litter. That will cute down on the cruelty...

Now the question keeps being ask how will animal control enforce the ordinances. Answer, the same way any law enforcement does it, catch them in the act. By that I mean if they get a call to check on something and see a yard full of pups, make contact with the owner to see if the animals are registered. If not they have 24 hours to do so or are HEAVILY FINE, ($1000.00 should do it) and the animals are seized (notice the 'and' not 'or'). After the word starts to spread about laws being enforced it will become more under control. Just as with a crap hole for a neighborhood, if the law comes in a starts locking up criminals, the criminals stop the crime or stop coming to that neighborhood. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out. Oh, but I'm not kin to any of them either...

"One animal is euthanized in the United States every two seconds, Frye said."

Really?

60 seconds = 1 minute
60 minutes = 1 hour
24 hours = 1 day
365 days = 1 year

(60 x 60 x 24 x 365) = 84,096,000 seconds in a year

Divide by 2 = 42,048,000 animals euthanized in the United States every year!

I am calling BS!

LookinpasttheBS,
A Google search shows that there are 31,556,926 seconds in a standard year.

From American Humane:
It is estimated that approximately 3.7 million animals were euthanized in the nation’s shelters in 2008. This number represents a generally accepted statistic that is widely used by many animal welfare organizations, including the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA).

For more information on the studies done by the National Council, please visit www.petpopulation.org.

http://www.americanhumane.org/about-u...

From HSUS:
Four million cats and dogs—about one every eight seconds—are put down in U.S. shelters each year.

http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/p...

Well if we stop the breeding all together than there is no need for your jobs at the shelter or any reason to donate to the shelter or the Humane Society of the US. Maybe you take a look at how much money the AKC and breed clubs raise for animals, I know our club donates each month to a different rescue orgination and that is all across the country.
By the way how many dogs and cats were adopted from the AC side this past few years with out being altered, I know....hundreds.....so start at home before you try to enforce this on responsible owners.
So I guess we should just do away with police dogs, tracking dogs, hunting dogs, search and rescue, herding and guard dogs and assistance dogs. There are dogs bred out there that work for a living, provide much needed services to people. So you can call BS all you want but the BS is this county attempting to enforce a nonsense law that is not enforceable....start with getting all the dog fighting in this county stopped, the starving dogs and cats roaming the streets and clean up the shelter and AC so that sick animals are not adopted out.
There have been animals beaten,starved and killed in this county without prosecution so it is a pipe dream to waste the courts time or money trying to enforce this......
Yes Virginia just like there is a Santa Claus there are good breeders out there whose dogs excel at what they are bred to do.

Ginger, I don't understand what it is about this ordinance that bothers you personally. You say you are responsible with your breeding, then you should have no worries. This will only require you to register your litters. Now, I get it! This is about the out of your pocket money it will cost to register the litters... If not, then what?

LPBS, go to the Liberty Animal Control and watch them put down the animals every week for a entire year and let's see if you doubt the statistics.

Ginger, that is a totally nonsensical post. The problem is not only irresponsible breeders of purebred dogs but also owners of them. BOTH of the dogs I discussed above are purebreds. They are owned by irresponsible people. If you keep breeding and this law goes through, I think there will be a fee to pay (if I remember the proposed law correctly) and you can pass on that cost to people wishing to buy puppies.

The fact that the law would inconvenience you personally is no reason to deny the myriad problems the rest of the world is experiencing due to irresponsible owners of purebred and mongrel dogs.

Ginger, I think the real problem is beginning to dawn on me. Are you afraid that potential clients will not buy as many puppies if they know that they must spay or neuter them or face a fine?

No that is not the problem, the money to register my litter does not bother me but I would probably be the only one to pay since I take the time to be a responsible owner. All of my pups are spayed and neutered unless they are on a contract for competition and I can account for all of the puppies I Have produced....which by the way is only four.
Basically this is an a law that can't be enforced and is a waste of time, and FYI I have been at AC when the dogs and cats are put to sleep and have compasssion for them. I devote hours to rescue and my problem is that you are not focusing on the real problem but attmepting to enforce a law on the owners who take the time to care for the animals they own.
Who is coming out to see if a animal is registered? Who is going to know if a person has a litter or not? Who is going to even know you own an animal if you don't take it to a vet....all you are doing is discouraging owners from using vets in this county so they don't pay for other peoples mistakes.
I guess you are going to ignore the fact that tons of animals have been adopted out of AC without being altered, hopefully the people who want this to be enacted will pay for those multiple litters that have been produced due to the lack of responsiblity of the county agency.

Ginger, many service dogs now are actually mutts saved from shelters and they do just fine once trained. Just like some kids grow up with parents who never graduated high school, but go on to be the first in their family to graduate college. Or how some siblings are academic and others athletic. As for your silly (and offensive if it didn't just come across as grasping at straws) logic on there being no need for "your jobs at the shelter", I think you will find that most of us posting here in favor of mandatory spay and neuter do not work at shelters. In fact, I have in the past said no to such offers because I believe in the cause, not the pay. Not every one is so motivated by monetary gain.
As for animals being adopted out unaltered, I agree that is a shame. However, I do know that many of the rescues follow up with the people who adopt to make certain that the animals are altered once old enough and are holding up to the contract that they signed. I also know that many rescues have taken animals back when they have not been taken care of as agreed to. Is it 100%? No, but it's a start.
I think it would be fantastic if there was no longer need for shelters or animal welfare organizations. Wouldn't it be great if we no longer had need of organizations for human welfare as well? No more abuse, no more trafficking, no more any of it? World peace? That would certainly take away a ton of jobs and donations, but what a great thing it would be. That too was just silly of you to bring up.
I don't care how much money AKC and breed clubs donate. It isn't about money. And again, I have said that I do not believe that all breeders are bad people or that they don't care about animals. I just think that they are making a harmful choice that is causing more harm than good.
And I do wish Animal Control were cleaned up. I wish they were given vet care so that sick animals are taken care of. I think it would be great if they acted as a shelter with an adoption facility instead of just a temporary holding facility. If they had a vet's office on premises, they could even alter animals before adoption so long as the animals were old enough. And I know all too well about the animal abuses that go without prosecution. All of that is a sad shame, but changing it is not a pipe dream, it is a possibility. Once upon a time there was no animal control, there was no shelter, there were no rescues, no low cost spaying and neutering, the gas chamber was still being used, etc. All of that changed. It may not be overnight and it may not be easy, but other counties in other areas have achieved it and proven success. To say that is equal to Santa Claus is ridiculous.

Ginger, just raise the price of puppies to make up for the money you will have to pay to register litters. That should solve YOUR problem.

Erinninuallain,
Wow, I am so impressed with your above comment. Thank you so much for taking stand and saying the right thing. Ginger, your words are very insulting to myself and apparently to the others as well. For one insult comes another and so let me say this; you are talking out of your A$$ and certainly without fully appreciating that your comments have conseqeunces. I do not have a problem with you breeding, that is not in question at all. You seem responsible however do not tell me about the your ridiculous points you are tyring to make becasue they are just that, ridiculous. So in your response that I hope you choos to do to me in this blog, give me some facts, not your you opinion or otherwise choose another post to reply to.

My last comment is this I don't care about paying the fee that does not matter to me I pay $150 to register my dog with her club each year. My problem is this the laws out there are not enforced now and I don't see any way they will enforce these new laws should they ever pass.
For ten years now you have not had to register a dog in this county, and I don't believe for one minute anyone has thought of the the logistics of trying to enforce or implement this. It will cost tons of money to get a program like this working and you are not going to find many people streaming into the AC to pay money to register their pets.
What should be done is that for every animal picked up as a stray that they are required to pay a higher fine and it should increas with the number of times an animal is impounded.
Facts are as follows:
Several years ago AC had a animal registration policy, IT DID NOT WORK, ask them how much money it made.
There is a large number of pet owners in this county that do not take thier animals to the vet otherwise why would you have so many heartworm positive dogs in the shelter?
Fact: Google the animal abuse cases in this county, there is a site for it, see how many were prosucted...you will be amazed at that.
Fact: You won't know who owns an animal unless they tell you.
The county does not have the money to avoid furlough days at schools to educate our children do you really think they are going to come up with money to regulate animals, it is a proven fact that the county cares nothing about it's pet population....you can't even walk a dog in the park here...
You gloss over the fact that the current laws are not enforced but try to make me into the bad guy for stating that this is a waste of time if they can't enforce what is on the books already why are we going to attempt to add more..
How about the multiple times I have called about the five feral cats in our neighborhood only to be told to catch them, that is is hard for them to catch a cat....at least I provide them with food or better yet the pregnant dog that is wandering up and down Hwy 84 that I have called on several times that no one ever picks up, she has been out there for month......trust me the list could go on and on.
Do I care about the fee not at all but I am not going to pay for all the deadbeat dog owners in this county, which is what you are proposing.

It seems to me, Ginger, that if the issue was a lack of enforcement of the law, you would be more focused on improving that state of affairs--not throwing up your hands and essentially saying "oh, laws can't be enforced. We should make no more laws!"

I think that most people in both Liberty and Long counties are really sick of the problem with out-of-control dogs. I would remind that the problem animals I posted about are purebreds--as are many that run the streets and highways around here. The dog that is now my pet, which I found dumped on my road, has her origins with a breeder of a particular and somewhat rare breed (around here, at least) who I am sure considers herself to be a responsible breeder. Ha!

I own both purebred horses and dogs. They are a luxury. People wanting to own them should be ready and willing to pay for that luxury. Perhaps if they are made to pay a little more because of this law, they will take better care of them.

Again you ignore the fact that there is no way to account for the animals in this county. Microchipping is not going to solve it either, as that requires people to take animals in to have it done and costs money. The fact of the matter is most of this county does not have the money to get this done.
As far as being a luxury that is laughable, my guess is we should now start checking into what other luxuries are owned by people in this county and start taxing them also, How many computers are sitting in landfill, how many water bottles are out there destroying our ozone, how many tv's.....how about the people driving SUV's or boats.
What everyone turns a blind eye to is that thier is a majority of people out there whose animals never leave the chain in the back yard so how do we register them....
So what happens next, are we going to have a animal census in the county, where are all those who own more dogs than the county limits then going to place them?? Where is the money coming from to conduct this animal inventory? Not out of this taxpayers pocket, or the majority of taxpayers in this county who would just as soon see all the animals disappear.
If you can't enforce what is already there don't attempt to add more...a lot of this problem could be solved just enforcing the exsisting laws.

I thought you already made your last comment?

Ginger, if you don't think that purebred horses and dogs are luxuries, I don't know what to say. And, here is a clue--in some places they are taxed as luxuries. At least our horse trailer was taxed as one in California until we started filing as a ranch and actually raising livestock with some consistent market value.

No, my dear, they are NOT necessities. We choose to own them because we like them. Some people have boats--we have expensive animals.

(Continued)

(Continued)

I'll tell you another thing, too. Though I have long since abandoned the idea of selling dogs in this area, I do keep tabs on the horse market both here and around the country. Guess what, my dear? It is and has been totally depressed for YEARS NOW (since the drought). It is nearly impossible to move any horse, regardless of bloodline and record in the show ring.

I can imagine that the same is pretty much true of the canine industry, although there are more buyers for dogs since dogs are not as expensive to keep as horses. To be blunt, Ginger, I think your aggravation has everything to do with the impact this law could have on the market for purebred pups and very little, if anything, to do with animal welfare or your claims of concern about the body of law pertaining to same.

And, by the way, the AKC or any breed association being part of the solution when it comes to animal welfare? You have GOT to be kidding. First of all, ACK recognition has a tendency to turn good working dogs into worthless fru-frus which can win in the show ring but CAN RARELY DO THE WORK FOR WHICH THEY WERE BRED. This is the fear that many Border Collie enthusiasts had when that breed was up for AKC recognition in light of what has taken place with other well-known herding breeds, such as the Collie.

Further, breed associations are usually oblivious to animal welfare and even hostile to it. A good example of this is the American Quarter Horse Association, which is actually for the slaughter of horses for human consumption. Why? Because the association is populated by a zillion little backyard breeders (sound's like the world of dog breeding, eh?) who breed marginal-quality horses which are often unsound, have inferior conformation and and thus have no real market value, even when the market isn't depressed.

I could go on and on. The Arabian horse association, as another example, still encourages members to keep breeding, even though it is impossible to sell the offspring in this economy. They, at least, don't encourage horse slaughter. They are just worried that the breed will die out in the United States. I guess we can wait for a few more people with money, like Davenport or Kellogg, to start it up again in case that unlikely event occurs!

But of course, there is always the option of living in an area with no laws pertaining to animal cruelty or the burden irresponsible people place on society with their unwanted animals. Long County is just that place. Beware, however. There may be no pesky animal control but there are people with guns--and sheriff's deputies who tell complaining citizens to use them on hapless dogs who are neglected by their useless owners.

G61, the only thing I can agree with you on is your last statement... But again, your real concern is about money. This ordinance will have nothing to do with taxpayers pockets if the laws are enforced. Knock, Knock, the fines will pay the cost. Now on the topic of enforcing the laws, I know if Animal Control had the backing from the Sheriff & State Court Judge to support their efforts of enforcement it can in fact be done. Everytime any of this crap involves a good ole' boy, Animal Control can't override the Sheriff and do anything he doesn't allow them to do. But, like the case with the soldier a few years ago for publicity the Sheriff brought him back to be prosecuted, only because it brought him attention and the soldier was not a local. What about all the abuse cases (and I know this because I have been in the court room to watch it) that have been taken to State Court and the Judge did not do a d@mn thing, probation or a forty dollar fine (one case was a boy & girlfriend fighting and the boy hung by it's neck her small puppy (a baby) over the shower rod to watch it die. Another was a man stabbed a dog completely through it's body with a pitch fork). So if you or anyone want to point a finger at the why, start with the seated officials and the reasons (as with the above cases) the locals want them to stay in office. If you want to point your finger at tax dollars being spent like flowing water, point your finger at the County Commissioners and the political property favors changing hands. So if you want to make comments then help do something about the root cause, not about trying to make positive change...

Ginger, I am also of the opinion that your reason for this blog has to do with an agenda other than what you claim, though I will not try to interpret what that may be. However, I'll bite the bait and give another response even though I should know better.

You do bring up some worthwhile concerns that I actually shared when first learning that they were trying to pass this here, such as the trouble with enforcing it. I guess the difference between us is that you are fatalistic and automatically assume it is all pointless. I don't share that same outlook. While I understand that there are difficulties, I do believe that through the use of research and logic, solutions can be found.

There is also the issue of feral cat colonies and other loose animals. A mandatory spay and neuter law will not change the litters that are being produced by those animals. There must be proper programs put into place to handle those populations as well. Killing them does nothing. It only leaves more room for others to come in. Trap-neuter-return programs are the better option, but the funding for it must be found and even though there are counties in the United States doing it as part of their animal services, it would more likely fall on the shoulders of the non-profit rescue organizations for this county. I feel that should also be addressed before trying to pass this ordinance.

I did not take part in trying to push the mandatory spay and neuter when I first heard about it. Normally, I would be at the least writing letters and making posts. I really only even responded to your blog because of some of the other things being discussed.I applaud those who were trying to get it passed and I feel their frustration over having not succeeded. But I did not feel this was the right time for it or that enough had been done beforehand to push for its consideration. I know that they don't intend to let it go easily and I hope that it will be revisited, but with more organization and certainly more awareness raised and facts and figures to back it up. Research and solid presentation as well as a solid show of community interest are of extreme importance.

I wholeheartedly support spaying and neutering. However, I do feel that some other things need to be accomplished in this area before making it mandatory.It isn't really right to force the public into doing something without giving them reasonable options. The first thing should be making it more accessible in this county at an affordable price. Great steps have been taken towards making low cost vouchers available, but the only vets who honor it are out of town. I take mine into Richmond Hill. There is Snac, but even that involves the animals going out of town and instead of simply calling and making an appointment that suits your work schedule there are non-negotiable pick up and drop off times. That can be a real issue, especially for people who are already having a hard time affording the vouchers. They shouldn't have to miss time at work for the drop off and pick up as well. There is also Animal Haven of Hope Society who are working hard at helping with spay and neuter by offering free transportation to a low cost clinic in Florida (for which I think they are awesome), but again the surgery is not done locally. I don't like the idea of my animals being put in a crate for a long drive with people they don't know and a variety of other unfamiliar animals around them and then going in for a scary surgery at a place that I can't get to within a reasonable amount of time if I am needed.I like to be able to see the place my animals are at and meet the people who will be handling them. Even knowing that these other methods are working quite well, it is just my personal sense of comfort that wants them to be close. I may take advantage of Snac in the near future, but there will be a very anxious part of me in doing so.

I moved here 10 years ago from Southern California. Even back then, they had far more available in the form of affordable animal services from spaying and neutering to vaccinations than Liberty County currently has. I could at certain times of the year get a male cat neutered for something like $5 and a female cat spayed for $20 because they realized the value it has for the community. Rescues, vets and county worked together to face the issues. Animals could also be spayed or neutered at a younger age than is done here, so often, even pups could be altered before being adopted out. Animal Control was more Animal Care and Control. They provided services other than pest control and extermination.

I am slightly annoyed that you would so arrogantly state "I don't believe for one minute anyone has thought of the the logistics of trying to enforce or implement this. It will cost tons of money to get a program like this working." This makes you appear to have a narrow frame of thought and complete lack of willingness to consider views other than your own. You seem to have already made up your mind and your pessimistic attitude seems so set in its ways, that it isn't willing to allow change. Don't speak for me or say what I have or have not put thought into. Among my first thoughts in these situations is usually how it can be presented in a way that shows the county and the public that it is beneficial for them. So while it may not be about money or popularity for me, I realize that it needs shown in that way to them. I seriously doubt that I am the only person who thinks like this.

Here is a link on model spay and neuter ordinances in the United States. It may answer some of your questions by showing you what other areas are doing:
http://www.helpinganimals.com/res_law...

As a taxpayer I truly hope that the commissioners look at what a failure for animals this ordinance will be; every where that MS/N has been passed in this country, shelter surrender rates increase, more animals are abandoned, fewer animal receive medical care. So much so that the American Veterinary Medical Assoc;

. Statement of AVMA against MSN:
"Public Policy
The AVMA does not support regulations or legislation mandating spay/neuter of privately owned, non-shelter dogs and cats. Although spaying and neutering helps control dog and cat populations, mandatory approaches may contribute to pet owners avoiding licensing, rabies vaccination and veterinary care for their pets, and may have other unintended consequences."
http://www.avma.org/issues/policy/ani...

They said "may contribute," Graeme. That means they think it will, not that it has already done so.

I would also point out that small animal care is a very lucrative and relatively safe source of income for vets. Just ask any large animal owner about the vet(s) they had but lost just as soon as he/she got established enough in dogs and cats to abandon his or her treatment of far more dangerous patients like horses--as well as to say goodbye to having to be available 24/7 for barn calls. They, like many others in the industry, have every reason to be concerned if paying clients for whatever reason have fewer patients on the ground for them to treat.

As a taxpayer and NOT a constitutional historian, I have to wonder at what point it became accepted practice for private citizens to write legislation and for elected officials to rubber-stamp it in the USA?

Let me get this straight 'Murrelet' because a professional association makes a mission statement concerning a matter that has bearing on its members and the health and safety of the general public immediately it is financially motivated?!?!

Erin, please linking to PeTA websites is at best a non-start to any discussion, or have you forgotten about the death vans recently in NC and that PeTA believes that it is a crime for humans to use animals in any shape, form or fashion to include and not exclusive to food, clothing, 'therapy-animals' or fertilizer.

Here's a fun game we can play and at the same time take all the personal emotions out of this discussion ;-)!!

Lets take the proposed ordinance and find the mis-truths, constitutional infringements and pending challenges, the criminalization of financially challenged citizens, the redundancies (already covered by local, state or federal law).

All the while we should remember that by passing a MSN law Liberty county and its citizens will no longer eligible to apply for or receive millions of dollars for animal/humane causes from Maddies Fund;

http://www.maddiesfund.org/Grant_Guid...

Coming on here this morning to post that I have been informed that the shelter stated in their presentation that some of the local vets agreed that they would offer low cost spay and neuter if this ordinance passed, which I believe is a tremendous step.
It was also brought to my attention that new doctors in Glennville, Westinger and Kinsella are working on a Trap-Neuter-Return program which would be outstanding.

quoting erinninuallain;

"I have been informed that the shelter stated in their presentation that some of the local vets agreed that they would offer low cost spay and neuter if this ordinance passed, which I believe is a tremendous step."

Gee how wonderful, a total win-win for the local vets money in their pockets no matter which way you cut it...

The fact that someone outside of the county is considering TNR however doesn't help Liberty county.

Graeme,
I have left emotion out of it. Other than slight annoyance at a few comments (such as the one about my non-existent shelter job), where have you seen me of all people get emotional?
As for the PETA site, I used it for the link because what it shows is not their opinion (which often, I do not agree with. I also have disagreements with the AVMA stance on quite a few things), but is what is actually in place in those localities. It is factual and not opinionated. To me, that is important.
And "may contribute" makes a huge difference.
If you look, you will find that there are big animal welfare groups both for and against it. Some have noticed success and others have not. The ASPCA says that research should absolutely be done on the area where you plan to have such an ordinance to see if it will be beneficial or not because with positive effects can also be negative and they do have valid concerns. I have said all along that I believe research is important.
This is something that I feel has much potential and can achieve a deal of good if the pieces are all brought together adequately before it is passed so that it can be one of the successful examples. I never said to just jump right in and do it without knowledge of other factors or without taking the time to think it out fully and work on solutions.
I am unaware of myself having an opinion other than that.

Graeme,
I do feel that a new T-N-R program is an outstanding thing regardless of where it is located. I was simply sharing information that I had received since I know people from Glennville do look at this site. I did not say their program was for Liberty County.

As for your reaction to the vets offering low cost spay and neuter, why do you treat it with such disdain?

The often held up as the model for MSN; Asheville Buncombe County

http://www.sog.unc.edu/programs/ncphl...

Graeme, if you don't think that veterinary medicine is a business and that dogs and cats are a very lucrative, relatively safe part of that business for vets--you're dreaming. I have seen too many vets abandon large animals, being deaf to pleas of large animal owners with animals dying in their barns, just as soon as their lucrative small animal practices became established to believe that any comments by a professional organization representing vets' interests to be disinterested in the least.

So we are getting to the meat of the issue, this is about 'money' as far as vets offering low-cost spay-neuter ONLY if an ordinance passes, no disdain just gob-smacked that anyone would find this acceptable.

Did anyone read the Asheville Buncombe County analysis? Where in those #'s is the money to finance low-cost spay neuter, especially considering it is a county with several kennel clubs and a much higher average income than Liberty County?

How about the opinion of the ASPCA on MSN;

http://www.aspca.org/about-us/policy-...

In its current form this ordinance penalizes the poor and under-privileged of Liberty and certainly will kill many more animals

Graeme,
You would have to ask the vets their reasoning, but I hardly see that as the meat of the issue.
As for the ASPCA statement, as I said in a previous comment, I have already read it. They promote research and making services available to low-income areas. They have concerns about potential negative effects. I agree with them on those points. I have said repeatedly that this ordinance needs seriously looked at and adequately prepared for. I believe it has a great deal of potential but must be thoroughly thought out. It seems pointless to keep repeating myself because you don't seem to be paying attention to any opinion other than your own. I'm fine with a debate, but not with a waste of time.

Would you consider saying that because low-income people cannot receive local animal care assistance they shouldn't have animals as per the way the proposed ordinance is written? And that their ownership should be subsidized by those who can afford to breed a litter?

What about the distinctly different reproductive issues in cats and dogs? And how this one-size fits all proposal doesn't meet any needs?

Perhaps what I find most appalling is the potential for criminalization of innocent citizens who happen to make the mistake of driving through Liberty County with a cat or dog in their vehicle as the ordinance is currently proposed..that in itself violates the entire tenant of innocent until proven guilty..

Granted I am totally ignoring the mandatory microchip issue and the pending Federal Supreme Court challenge against NARS and the constitutional guarantee of freedom of religion and the separation of church and state

I am concerned that with this proposal along with the new micorchip proposal will break the back of families already struggling in these encomonic times. Understand, I say this having all except one of my pets fixed. (The one not fixed has health issues which makes any non emergency surgery at this time unacceptable). I fear that these two proposals will cause more harm than good as more families are forced to make some tough choices.

You know this is really sickening to me. This should be ONLY about the concern for the animals being abandoned, abused, tortured, starved, blind, deaf, sick, etc., instead it has everything to do with the root evil of this society and the reason it is in this shape, GREED. Up2, now is a perfect time for those people to make those tough choices, if they can't afford to take care of the animals they shouldn't have them. That gives the opportunity to get the laws and actions in place so people CAN'T make those bad decisions without consequences and from not knowing the consequences. I have done the TNR program as an individual and it works. I have also trapped many and housed them til I found them homes. It cost less then $75.00 per animal, dog or cat. I don't know the exact cost, think I pay about $55.00 total for a cat, including rabies. Irregardless, to me you have to have priorities. I don't spend my money on what I consider household junk, I don't spend it on dope. My priorities is making sure I have the funds to take care of my responsibilities first. There isn't a person in the U.S. that could not cut back on something, because for so long we have had everything. You refer to poor, well I can tell you at one time or another we have all felt poor. What you will find is alot of the poor (statistics) spend their income (welfare or otherwise) on alcohol, drugs, cigarettes...

I can afford more, so I try to do more. Does it burden my family at times to do without other things for a while, yes. But you know what, it doesn't cause them to suffer without food & water, or shelter. Here is an example, I took my grandson one day, he's nine. We didn't spend a dime and had a great time together. Can you guess our adventure? We picked up garbage from the roadside, and along the way I was able to teach him about plants & what to be careful of, plus he was proud of the job he done. I didn't pay him for it either, and he loves Meme just the same... You know what else, when that boy turns into a man I know that I will have had a part in teaching him to do right by his heart, not his pocket...

A lesson apparently many adults need to consider...

I know at lot of older people whose only companion is a dog or cat. Believe me these animals are loved. They get them their shots each year even though it is a hardhip getting transportation and having the money. Somehow they manage. They have been very responsible with their pets and potential litters. Now you would say they don't deserve to have them if they can't afford the cost of microchips and spaying? Sorry Lips that is cold as hell and the though of it hurts my heart.

Up2,

It really is impossible to be responsible with unplanned litters when one considers these animals reach sexual maturity in about a year and then the litter-mates all go on to have litters of their own.

Surely, there has to be a way to get assistance to those who need it, rather than letting animals in this area suffer as they have been doing. I am really tired of seeing just about every road and highway in both Long and Liberty counties every time I go out.

I meant to say that I am tired of seeing animal corpses on the roads every time I go out!

Up2, you know me well enough by now, in regard to my words that what you suggest of my words is not to cause elderly people hardship or anyone for that matter. My words are to prevent the animals from hardships. In reference to the comment of the elderly, alot of the elderly are also thrown by the way side by their own families. Which is another sore spot with me. What I also said was a point "Mur" hit on, was people who can do more should. That said, I personally have paid for others to adopt animals from the shelter paying all cost. That is my point, not to take away elderly people's pets. Help the ones that need it, and fine the ones that just don't give a d@mn and continue to do the same selfish b/s over and over. I have gotten calls from the shelter and others to help on occassion with specific cases and I do. Is it too much to ask that others that can do the same? I am sure that the people that work and volunteer both at the shelter and Animal Control can tell the difference between ones that can't afford certain things and ones that abuse having animals. I also know that if those workers/volunteers have a choice to go out of their way to help someone keep an animal rather then put the animal down, they will do that too. They have my name/number in case of a bad situation and I would encourage others that can, to do the same. Now, knowing what you said about the elderly struggling, don't you think that should also be a great concern for us all? Where are their families that should be helping them? And where are their neighbors that can? I read a comment in the Shelter article about continuing to educate through the schools and churches about the care of animals. Shouldn't we also continue to educate through the schools and churches about the care of our elderly as well? And if people know of elderly that need care, just as if they see animals struggling, take a step and get involved...

Up2, you know I have a good heart and I know you do as well... Hugs & Kisses to help dry your tears! Mur, Hugs & Kisses to you too...

Murrelet,
Your mistaken, Long Co does have an animal control officer (just not a animal control department). One of your County Commissioner's sons need a job so one has be created for him. But i don't think working was part of the job description, but a salary was. Maybe you can get him to work for pay!!!!

ponscogin,

!@#$%^&*!!!!

WHL,

These are hard times for us all. Your kind words remind me too look for more ways in which to serve others.

I personally worked for a vet and the prices ranged from $200 and up depending on the weight of the animal for a spay or neuter,in this economy people hardly have money to get there dogs and cats shots let alone $200 or more for surgery because the shelter who is over whelmed with animals because they don't have the correct facilities needed to deal with the influx from troops and all around population growth. The shelter is hardly keeping their head above water and they need help but instead they are wasting their time and money on promoting this law which is unreasonable and senseless they need to put that money toward the shelter. Like I said above I worked for a vet and they only gave a 10% discount to the shelter. If the shelter can barely afford to get their animals spayed and neutered (hint those animals don't get pain meds either, so they suffer in pain when they wake up, their cries are heartbreaking)what makes them think we can...while i do think that dogs and cats should be spayed and neutered because there are health reasons for it, i don't agree with forcing people to do so...the entire country is talking about the government being to involved in non-government business, this is one of those things, how is the government going to tell me that i have to spay my dogs? its my right in this country to have dogs, and my family and i are responsible dog owners, and other responsible pet owners do not deserve to be punished for people who were unequipped or just plain irresponsible to handle a dog or a cat. so how exactly is it fair for me to have to put my dogs through an invasive surgery just so that i don't get a ticket for not having my them spayed? that is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard...and yes i am aware that there are some buses that will take my dogs to South Carolina to get them spayed for a cheaper price but one of my dogs is pure bred Boxer, and i would not feel comfortable sending either of my dogs let alone a pure breed, to a place that i have never seen before, to a doctor that i have never met before, to have surgery. Also my Boxer does not do well in cages or closed confined space so sending her away is out of the question. Even if the vets in and around town lowered their prices (which i doubt will happen) people would still not be able to afford the surgery. Unless the county is going to pay to have all of the pets in it to be altered. however i also don't see that happening at all! really if you think about it the law would be pointless the amount of troops in and out of liberty county would just bring more unaltered pets, and more irresponsible owners, and yet again not anywhere near the amount of space at the shelter for them or people enforcing the law, which Animal Control cant seem to do right now anyway. I don't see this law making it threw the first stages of the process. And I for one am happy about that, y waste money one a law that will never be enforced? And shouldn't be?