@HMJC: The first link wouldn't come up. Kept giving me "Server Error" message1??
Did read second link: My comment is that I do not have a problem with MODERATE Muslims. For that matter nor do I have one with Hanukah, Hinduism, or any religion that does not endorse violence such as Radical Fundamental Islam.
HMJC: Are you saying religious diversity, even of a Muslim nature, is not part of the American melting pot?
Not in the beginning, Indentured servants, Slaves, Irish, Indians, and Italian's just to say a few. In 1776 I do not remember finding the Muslim influence when our country was born. I interparate this statementt as referring to when America became a country. There is no doubt that there are many Muslims that are not radical but even today the influence of the Muslim culture is really only Muslim areas for the most part. Now not to be pretensious but I am on my 3rd History Class and it tells a much different story. When were young we learned that in 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue. The adult history I learned that Columns was a epic failure. When he first landed in Jamaica He basically burned and pillage and took back his findings and treasure; that was what convinced- the Spanish to let him sail again. The reality is he had 4 more voyages that were complete failures which ended putting him in jail.
That is kinda my point I guess; when you are making a statement like that it does not refer to building the very fabric is not a true representation
of our nation being formed in 1776.
At the end of the day we can cherry pick what we want to from History to make our musings real... Our children are not being taught the truth; it is a watered down I am ok you are ok whitewash. One class I find jaded is the mandatory Georgia Studies. To be frank it is primarily about the slave situation and to make white kids feel bad. I have experienced this with two kids and even went to address the black teacher about it; her answer was that I racist. For the record I actually am not prone to any set race as I served with a melting pot in the Army. I just wanted to address why both my kids came home most upset or crying. Call it what you will but saw it first hand.
I would like think we would want for our kids to know the truth good and bad so when they grow and go to college they are hit with a different story. Thanks for your comments.
One thing that history has taught us is that religion and politics do not mix well.
It is true that there have been many influential muslim Americans just as their have been Christian, Jewish. Right now their are legislators that are members of the church of satan..
if you study history you will know that Muslims are only moderate when they are a very small percent of the population.
The statement that "History Repeats Itself" has always been a perpetual circle. I do agree that religion should not be the highlight of ones campaign. There are so many recognized religions today I could not begin to provide a number. Now with that said; I have always subscribed to the one bible concept. Today a lot of people do not worship to hear a message. They go to the version of worship that provides the message they want to hear.
Killing in the name of religion goes back hundreds of years and is still going on today; in some cases genocide. We didn't learn then and am not sure we will.
One of the main things I received from religion is the "Do on to Others" as you would want to be treated. The concept of a Holy War has always been a double negative to me as that is in no way what religion is supposed to be about.
Oh yeah man church of satan it is a real thing. I for one am not a member of it however some are. I read a story about a statue being placed in the Oklahoma state capital representing the church of satan.
The people who organized it said they did this to “celebrate our progress as a pluralistic nation founded on secular law.”
Law should be secular. It can seem Christian in that, Christianity is big on justice and equality however. It was in part the right to worship not the worship that brought some of the founding fathers to our country.
Killing in the name of religion does go back hundreds of years and anyone who studies history should be able to tell you that Christians have much blood on their hands. Crusades, Spanish inquistion, the holocaust.
The thing is religion and politics do not mix well and history has shown that almost every religion when they are more than a very small percent of the population shed the moderate ideology.
@shan: I am aware that there exists a Church of Satan. I just did not know that some of the Churches congregants were in the legislature. Anywhere.
Got any names?
"Law should be secular."
Perhaps - but most laws do have their basis in religious teachings. To try to remove religion from law is to ignore the moral foundation for societal order. History has shown that civilizations which have done that have disintegrated.
"History has shown that civilizations which have done that (remove religion from law) have disintegrated."
Yes Sebe my brother but history shows all civilizations disintegrate, with or without Religion. Some of the false deity worshipping civilizations lasted hundreds of years. All things must pass. It's just a matter of when. Feel free to peruse the list below.
And this one:
I think the Egyptians among other deities worshipped "RA" the Sun God. And the Mayans worshipped God knows what but seemed favorably attached to offering up human sacrifices to achieve supernatural blessings. Stayed around along time these heathens dynasties.
You probably need to fact check the numbers with TOT. The Gate Keeper.
the Mayans worshiped God knows what. That is something of a mystery. I hate to say it but religion has done for society overall far more harm in this realm than it has good. Now I say in this realm because through religion after life and what not but for right now it is not religion but humanity that should be the order by which we govern ourselves.
Yes most nations crumble, what is that called social entropy? But see what if that nation was more than the nation what if it was an idea? Like the democracy of ancient Rome? while that nation has crumbled. (I know there is still Rome but it is not the Roman empire)While Rome is a small player now their idea of democracy remains.
So (and once again nothing against religion) there is a need to establish lasting nations on good ideas that respect the rights of everyone and religion just doesn't do that. Now I know I know some religions are more accepting than others but I also know that well...
"For every morsel of bread given to a stranger in need, hundreds have died from diseases whose cures were thwarted by organized religion's traditional opposition to science. For every word soothing the tempers of men, there have been calls to arms resulting in the death and maiming of thousands. The United Nation's Children's Emergency Fund estimates that forty thousand children die each day even as religious organizations obstruct the distribution of birth control devices in poor countries. The resultant daily pain and torturous deaths by starvation far outstrip the almsgiving and generosity religion has always claimed to espouse. Whatever percentage of this toll is attributable to church practices, surely it has added up to far more accrued pain and death over the centuries than the atrocities of Stalin and Hitler combined."
Charles W. Sutherland
Now, (and I am finishing up here soon) let me close my rant against religion in politics, with a quote from a man who I think was a complete genius.
"If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be" - a Christian.
Holy War's. Crusades, Indian Massacres, and other instances of killing/Genocide is abhorrent regardless of your religions beliefs I would think. The horrible truth is religions persecution continues to end in death.
Does this mean it is the religions fault? In most cases no however; As long as the world continues to play the " My Religion is Better Than Your Religion"; the madness will not stop.
As far as the Roman empire; it was directly related to complete moral depravity. One could say that if Christ's message was followed; it would have been the difference but it was man that chose not to hear of follow that ideology.
One thing has held true since civilization began; The so called moral majority tends not to be as moral as proclaimed.
I will never blame religion as the sole contributor for the crimes committed in its name.
At the end of the day the most destructive force of nature has been Man and I cant say that will ever change. Thanks for all of the comments and do take care.
Killing and genocide should be abhorrent regardless of your religions belief but because of what religion is killing is made acceptable.
Religion is not so really about right or wrong it is more about devotion. Is it religions fault that murder and death have happened? Some yes.
Almost every major religious text has some part of it that demands bloodshed, for various reasons.
The fall of the Roman Empire is debated but it was definitely through internal turmoil.
I agree that following Christs message would have made a difference but I think many are not sure of Christs message. For example Christ never spoke against homosexuality.
I hate to do it but as far as majority goes I totally agree once again with Mark Twain
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
I don't know if religion is the sole contributor for the crimes committed in its name but it is a major one.
As far as forces of nature go is man the most destructive ehh maybe. There was this volcano in Sumatra, that caused a global volcanic winter destroyed almost all known life on earth too. So while humans have made a dent earth was here before us and more than likely will be after us and man has got nothing on mother nature
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."