up2, that was the correct verdict, even though people want to convict GZ because he didn't conform exactly with what the police told him to do. However that isn't an exact banner for guilt either. From all accounts it is reasonable to say that GZ lost track of TM, so why would TM go and confront him after the fact? This could have prevented the encounter too!
I did not follow the trial as much as many, so the only comment I can make is that the jury heard all of the evidence and made their decision; and this should be the end of it.
The prosecution failed to prove its case. I see this confirmed by the jury asking about a lesser included offense earlier during deliberations, and then still acquitting him. They obviously couldn't see in the government's case enough "to hang their hats on" for a conviction on any charge.
As to a civil conviction - I don't know. This is no O.J. case, that's for sure.
this is a case that really showed the presses unwillingness to show all the evidence. all they did was pump up the case to make it sound like something it wasn't in order to raise their ratings. the jury did get it right.
I haven't said much on this case and didn't want to until the verdict. From day 1, when I heard the entire 911 call, not the edited ones, it was my assertion that GZ was jumped from behind. That's just how it seemed to me. I am truly sorry that this young man's life has ended, but to me, it came off as self defense. I have had people say GZ was told not to get out of the car. It seemed to me that he was already out and following when the operator said "we dont need you to do that"...as in follow him. GZ said he had lost him and would be waiting for the police. Then the unfortunate incident happened. To me, the correct verdict was reached. I don't think a civil case has a chance.
The outcome also confirms the fact that the prosecution undoubtedly didn't think it had a winnable case to begin with. This was reflected in how long it took to prefer charges. (Some in the media attributed the delay to a reluctance in a "Southern state" to bring charges against "the white guy.")
There was also a dust-up in some black media outlets when the all-female jury was selected; concern was expressed that this jury composition would result in Zimmerman being acquitted.
I think no matter what the jury composition and the trial outcome, you'll always have those Monday-morning quarterbacks who will attribute the results to some bias. For example, if the jury was all black males and they acquitted, they would be called "Uncle Toms." If they were all white males and convicted, then "justice would have been served" (according to the Martin sympathizers).
I agree with lholmes - based on the fact pattern here, I don't think a civil case goes anywhere. The Martins and/or their sympathizers can bring it, but it is likely to have the same result: a finding for Zimmerman.
....and here it comes:
They are shopping for another verdict. When the facts aren't there for a conviction - the facts aren't there for a conviction in ANY forum, unless the results are rigged, which is what these people want. They don't want justice, they want vengeance.
There are two facts that were known before the case began. George Zimmerman followed the young man and as a result of that he was killed. Only one side was told and that was George Zimmerman. Whether it black media or white media, a death resulted out of the action of ONE person and he is now free. Either way, this once great country is ridiculed by hate and racism. We can all shout that the prosecutor did not prove their case or that Zimmerman was only defending himself, but he did shoot an unarmed person. It is so sad that we profile each other based on appearance.
It was a tragedy, but was it "murder?" Or even "manslaughter?" The jury said NO. The prosecution de facto said NO by taking so long to bring the case.
Here's an excellent timeline of how this case was prosecuted in and by the media, and how hate and racism was stoked by those who are supposed to report "only the facts":
1. Is it a fact that the back of GZ's head lie two lacerations?
2. Is it a fact that GZ nose was swollen, bleeding and broken?
3. Is it a fact that GZ had a black eye?
4. Is it a fact that the back of GZ's jacket was wet?
5. Is it a fact that TM had torn skin on his knuckles?
6. Is it a fact that during the trial Rachel Jeantel said TM said he was being followed by a "Creepy A$$ Cracker"?
According to the jury no, but the facts yes it was manslaughter. But hey we live in a country where your fate is determined by others. I guessed long before the verdict was read that it was going to be not guilty. Then again look at the jury. They could all see the young man as someone that they could killed if approached. I remember CNN stating that during the trial. Not at all trying to play the race card, I am a 50 year old retired Major from the North. Then gain, this is just my personal opinion. Just as the jury gave their opinion of not guilty, but mine does not count!!!! Only in the south.
It is a fact that he should have stayed in his vehicle and not pursued, then Martin would be alive and Zimmerman would not have to go into hiding off of the tax payers money. We have a neighborhood watch in my community and we do follow protocol. Who to say that Martin was not defending himself!!!! Like I stated we are all entitled to our OPINIONS. Zimmerman supporters will support him whether he was wrong or not.
Anyone who has been in charge of people, knows that the only way to be fair is to go by the rules on the books period. The jury's verdict wasn't opinion, the prosecution couldn't prove GZ was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
If we all followed the rules according to the books, the Zimmerman Trial never would have taken place!!!!!!
Is this a tragedy? Of course it is but the judicial system is not about what is morally right or even justice. It is about the rule of law and the bar for a conviction wasn't met. I do believe that GZ was culpable in TM's death which is why I think There will be a conviction in a civil case.
We will never know the actual facts or what really happened that night. We only really heard one side. We do know that Zimmerman pursued an unarmed teen and he was killed. Everything else is pretty much here say. Only God knows and the victim!!!!!
P.S. Hey innocent people are sent to prison everyday and many that are guilty roam freely.
Ah yes, the criminal justice system in America. Caycee Anthony walks, OJ walks, Zimmerman walks... I agree with up2 regarding civil court. The standard of proof is not as rigid as the criminal court system. Zimmerman will lose all he owns and most everything everything else, including his ability to walk around as a "free" man. His life is forever changed.
Agree that his life is forever changed, but it's not a slam-dunk that a civil jury will find against him. IMHO - Zimmerman should have left policing to the police, but the issue is still self-defense when somebody is on top of you pounding on your face and slamming your head into the pavement - and whether deadly force is too much force to use in self-defense.
20-20 hindsight says he stays home; minds his own business; and lets law enforcement patrol the streets. But the fact that he didn't do that really is not key to whether he is guilty or innocent of murder or manslaughter.
No but in a civil trial they just need to prove his actions contributed to the events which lead up to TM's death.
first misconception. 911 operators are police officers. they are not.
second one. 911 operators can not give a civilian orders. you do not have to do what they say. that's why they said " we don't need you to do that" rather then tell him to say in his car.
if you listened to the whole trial you would also know there is a eye witness that seen the finial part with travon on top of zimmerman. you would also know travon was not walking down the street like they made it sound like. he was walking up and in between houses and going back into the same street. not cutting thru a yard to get to the other side. there was another witness that seen that part.
Hi Jimmy: I guess not. But here is a really good analysis -less than 15 minutes old as of this post - of how media bias shaped public opinion in the Zimmerman case.
Hi gacpl: Yes - it was NOT a case of an "angry white hispanic" profiling, tracking down, and murdering an innocent young black child as the media and the Martin sympathizers tried to paint it from the start. But I still say Zimmerman should have left patrolling the streets to those who are specifically charged and entrusted with patrolling the streets: law enforcement. IMHO - Mr. Ordinary Citizen, on "neighborhood watch" patrolling the streets with a handgun, is a prescription for disaster.
if your neighborhood had a lot of break ins, and the police weren't any closer to solving them would you just sit there? zimmerman wasn't the only person that seen martin acting suspicious. if the police can't protect your neighborhood you have to make a stand.
I would not arm myself and patrol the streets. To do that ASKS for the problems Zimmerman has had and will continue to have. If somebody wants to participate in law enforcement activities, they should get in shape and apply to the police academy. Paul Kersey needs to stay on the screen.
If a Creepy A$$ Cracker is being stupid and following you instead of observing and reporting and then you gave them the slip between apartment buildings, go home.
@Funk come on now..The Zimmerman verdict is heartbreaking. So much justice was delayed and denied before the case ever reached a trial. Had George Zimmerman not followed Trayvon Martin, none of the tragic events that followed would have happened. Our nation must respect the jury process, but we can never be content with a system that leaves more Trayvons vulnerable. My thoughts and prayers are with Trayvon's family and every family saddened by the outcome, knowing their sons, brothers or nephews could unjustifiably fall in harm's way.(MLF)
Let's be honest (and blunt) about what happened here:
Wannabe patrolman arms himself; hits the streets; and spots "suspicious" character. At some point, the tracked turns on the tracker and starts whipping his behind BIG TIME. Tracker - finding himself in way over his head - resorts to deadly force to alleviate the situation.
What we DIDN'T have here was either a poor little innocent Travon or legitimate law enforcement activities. The prosecution fought hard to portray Martin as a helpless child/victim, but the facts showed otherwise. I've said many times that it would have been better if Zimmerman had stayed home, but that doesn't change the facts. When you are being pounded as Zimmerman was, you grab for whatever defensive tools you can get your hands on.
Those were the facts the jury was presented; those were the facts the governnent knew would not bring a conviction.
The FBI conducted an extensive investigation of the incident - and of Zimmerman - along with local LE's inquiry -and found no evidence od profiling or racial prejudice in Zimmerman's background. I'll post the link when I'm on the PC.
But regardless, in this case - like it or not - justice WAS served.
Here is more information on a possible Federal Civil Rights Violation trial for Zimmerman.
No matter the color NO ONE deserves to die when they were doing absolutely nothing except walking down the street. I pray for his family and I pray that not only the USA but the world begins to start being HUMANE instead of just a human.
I find it odd that some people keep referring to George Zimmerman as a White Man.
His mother is Peruvian with some black ancestry through her Afro-Peruvian maternal grandfather. Zimmerman's voter registration record lists him as Hispanic and a registered Democrat.
The Associated Press noted that initially the most widely used media photo of Martin was several years old and showed him as a "baby-faced boy," rather than as a 17-year-old young man. To represent Zimmerman, the media chose a shot of a beefy 21-year-old Zimmerman taken seven years prior to the shooting, whereas recent photos show him as slim-faced and more mature. The two outdated photos chosen by the media may have helped shape the initial public perception of the shooting.
The AP quoted academic Kenny Irby on the expected effect, "When you have such a lopsided visual comparison, it just stands to reason that people would rush to judgment," and another academic, Betsi Grabe, as saying that journalists will present stories as a struggle between good and evil "[i]f the ingredients are there.
funny when the people that think zimmerman should have been found guilty talk about what what they "heard" about. it's not what came out in the trial. he was not walking down the street.
A blogger Named Brittany Donald Wrote A Response Concerning The GZ Verdict:
Dear George Zimmerman,
For the rest of your life you are now going to feel what its like to be a black man in America.
You will feel people stare at you. Judging you for what you think are unfair reasons. You will lose out on getting jobs for something you feel is outside of your control. You will believe yourself to be an upstanding citizen and wonder why people choose to not see that.
People will cross the street when they see you coming. They will call you hurtful names. It will drive you so insane some days that you'll want to scream at the top of your lungs. But you will have to wake up the next day, put on firm look and push through life.
I bet you never thought that by shooting a black male you'd end up inheriting all of his struggles.
Enjoy your "freedom."
A black male who could've been Trayvon Martin
Here's the link to the FBI investigation I mentioned above:
Zimmerman was a hot headed wanna be police officer whom was rejected by police departments prior to this case.
That should have told us smething right there that the police department found out something in hid background that made him unsuitable to be a memeber of their police department.
Now ask me the question was Trayvon Martin profied? My answer is you Damn Right he was. Because of the color of his skin. The kid was only walking through this exclusive neighborhood to go home. He was profiled because it was stated that black people were burgularizing houses in that community, and because Trayvon Martin (who happened to be black) was walking through the neighborhood, he was all of a sudden suspicious person.
There is just so much I can say here, but the more I write, the more sickening this gets.
While I respect the jury's verdict, I do say Zimmerman may have gotten by, but in my humble opinion, Zimmerman wil not get away with this. It should be noted that the Department Of Justice are examining the case sice the State's case is over. He can't be retried for 2nd degree murder and manslaughter becaue double jeopardy applies. But I strongly believe that he will eventually be arrested and charged federally on violation of Trayvon Martin's Civil Rights. Thsi time, he will be found guilty.
Lets not forget the civil lawsuit that will be coming for wrongful death. This time, Zimmerman will be compelled to testify, and if not, he will be held in comtempt of court. Lets see how much of the truth comes comes out at that time. Oh yes, he does not tell the truth as he was a liar from the very beginning. Remember the bail hearing? Remember why his Bail was revoked?
During the mean time, he is a feee man, and free to go where ever he wants to go. But I ask you is he really free? I say no as now he is into hiding, and he will forever be a fugitive to himself. He will frever have to look over his shoulder. Is he a marked man? You answer the question.
Simpatico here sf3. OJ walked but fate caught up to him. After losing everything in the civil trial he found a way to get involved with the criminal justice system again and getting 3 hots and a cot. Caycee Anthony is in hiding. Don't know how she is supporting herself. She turned down Ron Jeremy's offer of 1 mil. to make a porn movie. Zimmerman in order to exist will have to change his name, grow a beard or have plastic sx, AND relocate.
You won't recognize me. My name was Antonio Santiago and I was the 13-month old child who was shot at point blank range by two teens who were attempting to rob my mother, who was also shot. A Grand Jury of my mommy's peers from Brunswick GA determined the teens who murdered me will not face the death penalty...too bad I was given a death sentence for being innocent and defenseless.
My family made the mistake of being white in a 73% non-white neighborhood, but my murder was not ruled a Hate Crime. Nor did President Obama take so much as a single moment to acknowledge my murder.
I am one of the youngest murder victims in our great Nation's history, but the media doesn't care to cover the story of my tragic demise, President Obama has no children who could possibly look like me - so he doesn't care and the media doesn't care because my story is not interesting enough to bring them ratings so they can sell commercial time slots.
There is not a white equivalent of Al Sharpton because if there was he would be declared racist, so there is no one rushing to Brunswick GA to demand justice for me. There is no White Panther party to put a bounty on the lives of those who murdered me. I have no voice, I have no representation and unlike those who shot me in the face while I sat innocently in my stroller - I no longer have my life.
So while you are seeking justice for Treyvon, please remember to seek justice for me too. Tell your friends about me, tell you families, get tee shirts with my face on them and make the world pay attention, just like you did for Treyvon.
There is a lot of copying off of FB here, lol. But that aside mountain. Those are two separate issues. First, the persons who allegedly shot Antonio were almost immediately arrested and will stand trial. So at this point in the game there is no perceived miscarriage of justice.
No way this guy could ever remain in the United States for long, and be safe. He has caused such a public out cry that he can not possibly continue to go unnoticed. There is an ole saying: " You Live By The Sword, Then You Die By The Sword".
Since he is a free man, it would be best for him to teclaim his passports and leave the United States. Go in excile to Venezuela since they are accepting americans into assylum.
Yes Jesus Wept. So is a lot of the Anerican People in regards to the out come of this trial. Anericans are still weeping. They are crying out for justice in hope that this kid did not just die in vain.!
@mountain...the mother had something to do with that murder-evidence points at her. If the young men were responsible they should be found guilty and charged too. I don't care what color you are..if you commit the crime you must do the time. My heart goes out to the child..he didn't deserve that.
According to Ann Bremer,(lawyer) (A civil trial would offer the Martin family two big advantages: They might be able to force Zimmerman to testify, and the burden of proof is much lower.
To win in a criminal trial, prosecutors need to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Plaintiffs in a civil case do not have that burden.
"The standard of proof in a civil case -- by a preponderance of the evidence -- is much lower than the standard in a criminal case,"
Bremner has handled several high-profile civil cases, including those involving Mary Kay LeTourneau, a Washington schoolteacher who was imprisoned for having sexual intercourse with a student, and missing Utah mom Susan Cox Powell.
According to Bremner, additional evidence could be admitted in a civil case, and information about Zimmerman's prior run-ins with the law might be brought up. This would likely include the admission of a 2005 motion for a restraining order Zimmerman's ex-fiance filed, alleging domestic violence.
"You always get more information in a civil case," Bremner said.
While Zimmerman exercised his right not to testify at his criminal trial, a civil case could compel him to take the stand and explain what happened on Feb. 26, 2012 –- the day he shot and killed Martin.
"Zimmerman will have to testify unless he can take the Fifth, as there are the possible federal criminal charges. But by the time of a civil trial, any federal charges should be resolved. And, there are plenty of areas of questioning that will not implicate the privilege. There is [also] the possibility of the judge giving an instruction that the jury can draw a negative inference from any invocation," Bremner said -- meaning if Zimmerman doesn't testify, the jury would be allowed to consider that absence in a negative light.
Check this out.
At the time of the shooting, he was employed as an insurance underwriter and was in his final semester at Seminole State College for an associate degree in Criminal Justice. In one of his interviews with police he stated his goal was to become a JUDGE.
Mountain, I think the Police Officer thing was because at one point he had applied to be a police officer but was turned down because his credit wasn't good enough.
SF: I didn't say nut'n about OJ :)