I haven't been active the last couple of years, but i was involved in scouts going back to 1976, i feel it's a sad day for all scouts, presents and past scouts.
In this area, I think we are on the slippery slope. But "pedophiles" seem to be where you least expect them - so I'm wondering if there is any merit to allowing the self-professed "gay scoutmasters" to serve, so that you can watch them more closely? Wouldn't that wreck the purpose and atmosphere of scouting itself? And does that policy indicate a relaxed "permissiveness" which might attract more pedophiles who are unwilling to "come out" and who still want to prey from inside the closet?
Lots of questions. This change sounds like bad policy to me.
Anyone having sex with a minor should be locked up. Heterosexual or Homosexual. I support the scouts but it has come out(no pun intended) recently that there have been sexual crimes perpetrated on some young boys by their scout leader.
I think Bad touch, Good touch should be in the Scout Manual. As well as respect for people of all sexual proclivities. That doesn't mean scout trips should devolve into sexual orgies, it just means, you do not bully or humiliate others for their particular sexual orientation. I think the screening process for a Scout Leader should be of a very rigorous nature and monitering. I am not sure what the Catholic Church has done to combat their epidemic of pedophilia but the issue is out there and must be dealt with.
You see, I do not believe anybody CHOOSES their sexual orientation. They are born with their own sexual predisposition. And there is a right way and a wrong way to express it.
Scouts can teach that concept, I believe.
Homosexuality has existed throughout history and is not going away. Just because one is a homosexual does not mean he or she is a pedophile.
I believe pedophiles are evil destroyers of innocence and is wrong. I can see Scouting becoming an avenue to enhance respect towards all law abiding citizens.
before looking into pedophiles issues, people need to realize the boy scouts are a religious group. being gay does not fit with religion.
Not so gacpl. Being gay does not "fit" with traditional Christian ethics but to say it doesn't fit with relgion is not true. There are many regligions which embrace its homosexual members. My stance is, once you accept money from the government, you lose your right to pick and chose.
gacpl, I have come to respect your views and was a wonderin if the Catholic Church Sponsors any Boy Scout Clubs? Or Jews? Is it just a Protestant thing? I am not being facetious here, I really do not know.
All Adult leaders have to pass abackground check. They also have to take mandatory classess that prescribe the process of Scouting. Scouting does teach boys about "bad touch" good touch" We also have a policy of two deep leadership that means two adults at a minimum have to be present to engage in any type of scouting.
According to the reports I've seen, the Muslims don't think homosexuality "fits" with their religion. And the last estimate I saw was that the Muslims comprise nearly 25% of the entire world population.
But religion aside, the question is whether this change in policy in effect is going to serve up a potential smorgasbord to homosexual male scout masters whose proclivity for the male persuasion is declared for the world to see. First, we have the potential victimization of the children. THEN, we have the fear and apprehension of the parents. You can legislate "equality" and all the rest, but if I was a parent of young boys in this day and age and was confronted with this policy change, I JUST WOULDN'T TAKE THE RISK. Scouting wouldn't get my kids - or my money or support. I would not be willing to deal with such a potentially devastating problem after the fact.
I'm all for "tolerance" and "civil equality," but I am not for increasing the exposure of the young male population to sexual predators. You can call this "prejudice" or "bias" or whatever you want, but when it comes to children, I will ALWAYS err on the side of their safety and protection.
Yes Sebe, this one is kinda dicey. I emphatically agree to ALWAYS err on the side of their safety and precaution. The only thing that I havn't worked out yet is if most homosexuals are predominantly pedophiles.
I think HMJC is on point about background checks. I might only add some sort of psychological assessment of the Scout Leader before being allowed to Lead a Pack.
I agree Up2. In fact if one was to do a numbers search (Sebe? Funk?...)I might just imagin that the pedophile number would fall predominantly on the Hetero side of things.
I really don not know....
Sexual Predators because they are gay? There is no evidence anywhere from any study, and there have been plenty, that suggests that homosexual men are more likely than heterosexual men to molest a child. Pedophiles molest children. They are adults attracted to children. A man that is attracted to a man is not the same thing as a man attracted to a boy.
So it is not a matter of adult sexual orientation, it is a matter of being fixated on a child. Here's a great article of all the research that has been done. Again, nowhere
has it been seen where a gay person is more likely to molest children, pedophiles do that.
Its a shame we are so far off from gays having the anywhere near the same rights as others. These are KIDS. And are being punished for something thats no fault of their own, for simply being who they are. And to tell them they are not good enough because they are different is just sad. It breaks my heart that a little boy may want to join and is not allowed because adults think they are not worthy. Seems like tolerance and understanding would be taught but guess not. It really saddens me but this is how it is. People are entitled to how they feel about it. I just wish they didn't.
Being gay is not a choice, hating one or not accepting one is taught. Kids aren't born to dislike anyone. When they are taught in this way, these are the one's who bully and when they get bullied and are not accepted this is what we get:
I really doubt some if any will watch the video, its my experience people close their minds and only see what they want to see. And a video of so many of our youth who have committed sucide, with kids that look like any one of yours or my kids isn't pretty. But it's reality, and something that has to stop. I will say one more thing. Don't think any of you couldn't end up with a gay child or grandchild. Trust me it can happen. Hopefully some would have a change of heart in that case. If not how tragic it would be for that child.
froggy, I watched all of it. Not sure what to say but I think it is not going to be beneficial to the future of the Boy Scouts of America to lift their ban.
My saddnes to all of this is that Scouts was one of the last orginizations that refused to cahnge their corp values. It tought young men that it is important to stand up for your beliefs and not to compromise your values.
i was a scout growing up and my kids were scouts. i speak from a position of being part of the group, not from a liberal point of lets make this group do this even though i have no dog in the fight. boy scouts are a christian group, a religious group. gays are not welcome or wanted, they do not fit in. the bible say it is a abomination for a man to lay with another man. that leaves no place for gays. the scouts hasn't received government funds for a number of years, so that point is out. but they use to, and the government gained a lot from it. 80% of all valor awards giving during korea and vet nam were to former scouts. 26 of the 29 first astronauts were scouts. the list goes on and. it is not about whether gays are pedophiles, its a lifestyle not compatible with Christianity.
A Scout is Trustworthy.
A Scout is Loyal.
A Scout is Helpful.
A Scout is Friendly.
A Scout is Courteous.
A Scout is Kind.
A Scout is Obedient.
A Scout is Cheerful.
A Scout is Thrifty.
A Scout is Brave.
A Scout is Clean.
A Scout is REVERENT.
OK, so if then we should do away with all Scout Master who: Are divorced and remarried, who gossip, who have had sex before marriage, who eat pork, shellfish and cheeseburgers, who wear polyester, and so forth and so on. The Bible says the wages of sin is death. From a little white lie to men like Hitler and Stalin. ALL sin is abominable in God's eyes. So if you're gonna preach homosexuality is a sin then you have to take all the Bible and not just the stuff your not doing.
Sin or not, I am concerned for the children. I was raised a Roman Catholic in a community where the Boy Scouts were an active, vibrant organization. The two most trusted groups in our community were the priests and the scoutmasters. That was 50+ years ago. We've all heard about what was going on in a lot of the Catholic parishes. If not, read the latest "news":
Most people develop their opinions and beliefs based upon their training and their life's experiences. Unfortunately, not all of us have the same experiences, so not all of us can relate to or understand the opinions of others.
My training and life's experiences have shaped my opinions and beliefs. I don't care whether homosexuality is a choice or not. The facts here are that the Boy Scouts are CONSIDERING whether to lift their ban on homosexual scouts and scout leaders. IMHO - the problems and potential problems this change would create - if I had scoout-aged boys - would make my enrolling my son(s) in scouting a no-decision. I JUST WOULDN'T TAKE THE RISK.
To me, it's just like proposing to promote the homosexual lifestyle in elementary schools, with books, lectures, and the like. Young children have yet to develop life's experiences, and most are pre-conditioned to trust and follow adult leadership. I would not want my son being "led" or influenced by a homosexual in the typical scout settings, no matter where that homosexual was trying to lead them.
That's just it Seb, you don't have to send your kids to school, you can homeschool or send them to a private one what has similar values and beleifs. They don't have to be in the scouts. Many churches have scout-like organizations. For example, the Adventist church here in town has an active Pathfinders orgainzation. Do I think homosexuality is a sin, yes but so are so many things we do everyday without a thought. Do I stop being friends with people who are sinning diffrently from me? No. The basis of God's law is mercy and love.
I Circle around to my original post. Scouting teaches waht "right" looks like. These young men are very impressionable. They take to heart the Scout Oath and Scout Law. Scouting Mission is not to support ones sexualality. It is based on developing young men to be a productive member of society. It needs to be left as that
Here's another, high-profile example of what can happen when children are not adequately protected:
To me, it's not about "home-schooling" or what not. And you're right, all kids do not have to be in scouts. It's a CHOICE - and people usually make choices based upon their upbringing (i.e., training) and life's experiences. Often they will make choices based upon advice or "guidance" they receive from others.
When I am raising a child, I want to be confident that the guidance, advice, training that my child receives is consistent with the religion, mores, tradition, beliefs - whatever - of my family. It is MY responsibility to raise my children and I believe one should take that responsibilty very seriously. IMHO - a responsible parent does everything possible to prevent harm - physical and psychological - to their children.
For me, sending my child off to be taught, influenced, advised by an avowed, open homosexual in the potentially secluded settings that scouting affords simply involves too much RISK. By definition and in practice nowadays, homosexuals believe that their actions and their lifestyle is OKAY. I would not want my child to be taught, influenced, advised by somebody who believes that homosexual acts and their lifestyle is okay.
It is as simple as that.
I agree, HMJC. We are now inserting sexual preferences and lifestyles into EVERYTHING in this country. But that's what you get when your society "goes permissive." One view is that you can "confront your problems head-on." But that presumes that the lifestyle/sexuality that "comes out" is a "problem," doesn't it?
I still say it's all in the society that you want. Is that society one where "anything goes" - or is it one with structure where morality isn't just a word?
....and another thing - as far as "numbers searches" go:
The numbers I'd like to see are the number of males today - who were molested when they were chidren by Roman Catholic priests - who think it is a good idea for openly homosexual men to serve as scout masters. Or how about a survey of those men who were molested by that coach at Penn State? Maybe they might think that having homosexual Boy Scout masters is a good idea.
No - for me, it's all about RISK. The context of all of this for me is the definition of human sexuality. What I was taught - and what I believe - is that the purpose of human sexuality is the propagation of the species. To put it bluntly - I believe that only that sexual activity which promotes the propagation of the species can be considered NORMAL. That is what God/nature/whatever intended. Anything else is ABNORMAL. In any structured society, those who are abnormal will suffer - no matter how much "equality" you try to pump into it. Utopia will NEVER exist. There will NEVER be true "equality" in a society, so those who non-conform will ALWAYS suffer. When I have children to raise, I want to give them the absolute BEST opportunity for success in the societal structure in which we live. Consequently, I WOULD NOT choose to have my child be a homosexual. And IMHO - that's a good question for every parent to ask:
Would your FIRST CHOICE be for your own child to be a homosexual?
If so, why? If not, why not? Regardless of the answers, they would tell us a lot about ourselves and the society we really WANT.
I would not choose to have a homosexual child.
Because it is abnormal.
A man who cannot bring himself to lay with a woman simply should spend his life laying with no one.
Abstain from sinfull abnormal behavor.
If fate should determine that I might be confronted with a descendant who found themselve to be not capable of heterosexual life, I would advise that individual to ba asexual and not cross the line to homosexuality.
If they could not resist the urge to enter into a homosexual relationship I'd advise them to keep it a private thisg.
All this got started with a petition online! They got enough signatures to get it to move forward. I got one in my e-mail! NO, I did NOT sign it. It only takes one predator to create more vampires. If someone here would like to stop this get more signatures on a petition! REPEAL this NOW! I'll sign it...
Here's your link...
Saw this on ID channel today, thought I would share,
I posted the link above to fast... You have to watch it on ID channel only. Here's a different link same story..
I got only one question on this right now.
Can we all agree that GOD is Love? I believe God IS love. Therefore is God present in a monogamous law abiding taxpaying relationship between two homosexual men or women who entertain spiritual values?
I think the Episcopalians believe that is possible. They've ordained open homosexual preachers. They be going to hell for this? I don't know.
Legitimate Love, unlike 'legitimate' rape, to me seems to endorse loving legitimate committments between couples of the same sex.
And I think God is present in such a loving relationship.
I do not believe that God is present in the Pedophilia world.
IMHO Jimmy, I think God has stated what he approves and disapproves of. That being said, I have a problem with those who point the sin finger at other people but who are sinning just as openly. God has said the wages of sin is death. All sin, from gossiping to mass murder, is all the same to God. Only man says this sin is worse than that one. So unless you're gonna use the same ruler for everyone, ie no divorced persons, no one who is gulity of fornification etc, then to pick one sin and try to elevate it above another is wrong. We are all God's children and we all fall short of the mark. Don't you think as christians it is about time we started to live what we preach?
God is love, but marriage is marriage, and normal is normal. Societies have continually redefined "normal" down through the ages, but you know what stops this process? The disintegration of the society. Then the rabble figures out they did it wrong, and they try to contruct a new society, with the laws/rules/mores that will preserve order, peace, harmony, and facilitate the propagation of the species. In short, they institute a system of MORALITY.
Without the fabric of morality, there can be no structured society. Without a structure society, there is no justice and there is no peace. And usually, there is no God.
When governments and organized religions establish laws, rules, mores, whatever you want to call them, and in order to foster an "anything goes" environment a society decides that those laws, rules, mores, whatever to define "normality" are "outdated," "unnecessary," "unfair," etc., it only pushes a society further down the road toward disintegration.
And toward Godlessness.
pick up the Bible. God is indeed love, but he is also brutal destruction for those that go against his word. Look it up. We all know of Sodom and Gommorah. Then there is a group that rebelled against Moses...led by a man named Korah. In the Bible, God opened up the ground and swallowed up his entire family. How about the Egyptian army chasing Moses? I think archeologists are still digging them up today. Plenty examples of love, but plenty examples of God destroying people too.
Hate to say it but teaching intolrance is not okay. First Homosexuals are not paedophiles or child molesters. Paedophiles and child molesters are usually not admittedly homosexual in fact. Someone is not going to come out and say if I am a Scout leader, I will molest those kids. If they did that would be easy... yet so many are molested in scouting... in the Catholic Church ... Inother ministries. Not because of tolerance, no it is because of availablity to the child plain and simple. If some is admitedly gay they are not who you have to worry about hurting your kids!