What reform are you proposing? There are law breakers everywhere. Do you punish the many for sins of the few?
No, the welfare people now have a credit card. It should be setup to catch fraud. In other words, track their spending habits.
How do you propose to do that? Currently they don't have enough people in GA to process the applications, (due to strict buget cost which will be cut even more this year)let alone track their purchases. It comes down to money. The amount of fraud is insignificant to the cost the tax payers will have to pay to implement such a plan. Also I can see the AFLC getting involved as an invasion of privacy. How much would it cost to fight such a lawsuit?
With all the "magical" stuff they can do in this digital age, it seems like they ought to be able to prevent welfare credit cards from being used in strip clubs somehow. I hate to suggest new laws, but it might even be in order to penalize the strip clubs for TAKING government welfare credit cards. The military has controls and a system in place that covers the use of government credit cards. Perhaps they should look to that system as an example.
Those employed in positions with the power to thwart abuse of the system simply have no motivation to do so.
That is a great part of the reason that we have so many people being classified as disabled when they in fact are quite able.
There used to be a time when most men and women were too proud to accept a handout.
In the thirties and forties we did not have homeless people in rural areas.
There was the occasional tramp walking down the road but he continued on his way in search of work.
They often stopped to knock on a door to ask if they might do some choir in exchange for food.
They were not allowed to go hungry but they had to move on.
People then were more honorable as a whole than they are this day and age.
They often stopped to knock on a door to ask if they might do some chore in exchange for food.
I guess they might have offered to sing.
Maybe I made someone's day by misspelling chore.
With all the 'magical' stuff they can do in this digital age our default position is to blame and punish a private business.
No Tot; besides eating lead based paint off of your bedroom wall instead of going to school, your misspellings are taken for granted here.
Your main problem other than brain damage from eating all that paint, is that you are STUCK IN THE PAST AND DO NOT KNOW HOW TO GET OUT.
It's a different world TOT and you might as well get used to it.
"With all the 'magical' stuff they can do in this digital age our default position is to blame and punish a private business."
So you think that people on welfare should be spending our tax dollars in strip clubs? Wefare is provided to people who supposedly need it to put a roof over their heads, clothers on their backs and food on the table for themselves and their families. Gambling, drug/alcohol use and abuse, and strip clubs - IMHO - don't fall into any of those categories.
The O'Reilly Factor on Fox news will be talking about people partying on our tax dollars. It starts a 8:00.
Bill O'Reilly is a demented right wing lunatic whose main audience is made up of demented viewers. He is so full of himself that he is an ego inhabiting a human body.
But, in this world, somehow the wicked prosper. Such is the case with O'Rielly.
I'm not sure how much partying you can do on welfare. Since for two children you get about $235 a month. With FS, you can only use authorized merchants. So there maybe a few (very few) who are getting over on the system but the majority are honest citizens. As with anything, you will always find examples of bad apples. It's the same kneww jerk reaction that has people wanting to ban all privately owned guns because the recent shootings.
If a strip club is against the law shut it down. If they are conducting a legal business in a lawfull manner leave them alone. A private business should not be put in the position to act as a police force for corrupt govt.
HuDhat1, think about it! They also said casinos... If I could draw money off a welfare / S S I, hell yell! Bet your sweet asset my rear end would be parked on a chair in front of a slot machine Yelling "COME ON, BABY NEEDS A NEW PAIR OF SHOES"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When someone enters a private business with a pocketfull of money they got from the govt. it no longer matters if they are a welfare cheat or a govt. retiree. The money used to belong to the business, they have a responsibility to try and get some of it back.
"If I could draw money off a wefare/SSI, hell yell!" sayeth She-run-run-run
I always knew you were a two-faced sell-out She-run-run-run. You possess the personal integrity of a toad.
This isn't about private business, it's about the abuse of the welfare system and taxpayer dollars. As has been stated on this board many times, with welfare - those of us who are taxpayers and NOT on welfare are in many ways "our brother's keeper." I have no problem with this - as long as MY tax dollars are being used to put food on the table, clothes on the backs and shelter over the heads of my "brothers" - the welfare recipients. WELFARE DOLLARS SHOULD NOT BE SPENT ON LAPDANCES. It's a pretty simple concept. Welfare is designed to help the NEEDY. The assumption is that the money will be spent responsibly ON THE NEEDY. Tax dollars designed as a hand up to the needy should not be spent on gambling, liquor, strippers, or prostitutes - plain and simple. This is a problem that needs to be fixed. There is system in place to identify and punish those government employees who improperly spend our tax dollars via their government credit cards on lapdances, etc. They shouldn't allowed welfare dollars to be spent that way either.
The Bottom Line: With our welfare system today, the law may say that I have to be my brother's keeper, but it shouldn't mean that I have to pay for my brother's lapdance.
About government credit cards seb, I don't know about other states but GA has a tight control on such matters. No only will you be out of a job but spending time in the pokey for fraud.
Well...hard earned wages don't need to be spent on lap dances either. The same goes for gamblin and likker drinkin instead of paying the rent.
Users and Abusers exist everywhere. Much as we must tweak up the ability to purchase assault rifles we need to tweak up the foodstamp and welfare checks spent for deserving needy families whose deadbeat dad and moms waste items intended for their children.
We are all bozos on this here bus, that somehow must learn to work together.
All of us excepte ToT, of course. He needs to be quarantined and studied.
'this isn't about private business'...that was my point. It was suggested that maybe new laws be passed to penalize strip clubs that take money from welfare recipients. If you have a problem with your welfare system then fix it. Don't add another layer of nonsense to private enterprize.
I don't see how that can be reasonably monitered. As I said, here in GA a business must get authorization to accept the EBT cards and the Food Stamp cards so I don't see how someone is using one in those places. Now if they bring in cash, how is a business owner suppose to know where the money came from?
up2, EBT cards can be used at ATM'S to pull out cash for rent, electric, gas bills and so on. That's if their on SSI!
SSI is not for just retired people, it's also for people with disabilities...
and here's some reading that you should be mad as hell about!
I understand you can draw cash from the EBT card. I want to know how you plan to track the money and how it is used once it was been converted to cash. There are cheaters, there always will be. Every time you think of a way to stop them, they figure out a way around the system. I will once again state, most people who received SSI, TANIF and Food stamps are honest people. The cheaters are only a very small percentage of receiptants. And while the money (TANIF) is suppose to go to help the children, I know of no rule which states it cannot be used at strip clubs or liquior stores. The cost of trying to catch this small percentage of people will cost the tax payers more money than the cheaters. God knows who cheats and lies. I am not after his job so I am content to let him handle things at his pleasure.
I just read the intial article and I don't know who wrote it but they are full of it. The Food Stamp Proagram is a national program (comes under the Dept of Agriculture), unlike TANIF (which is a state program and subject to state guidlines). The rules for Food Stamps are the same no matter which state you go to. I know for a fact you CANNOT make cash withdrawals on a foodstamp card. It's just not possible. Don't beleive me? Take a ride over to the DFCS office and ask them. Also, I'd like to know how they know who at the ATM is a welfare receiptant as that is restricted information. The Freddom of information Act will only get to stats and not individual clients. The same with SSI.
UP2; She-run-run-run paints her "enemies" with a broad brush. All of her 'sources' are questionable and should not be taken as Gospel. Go back and read her diatribe against the homeless in Hinesville. It is astounding in its lack of sensitivity.
BTW UP2; I sent froggy a personal note of understanding. She responded in kind.
Seems I need you, and dare I say it, Funk, my sometimes political adversary, to keep me in line.
HuDhat1, welcome to this medium.
You are dead on the money about the money having been derived from the private sector in the first place.
These bleeding heart liberals either don't understand that or they are simply demented
HuD, you have already crossed swords with Jimmy Mack.
If he doesn't know who you are he will soon attack your person as if he knew who you were.
Either prepare for some verbal abuse or don't disagree with him.
Really TOT? I have disagreed with Jimmy on several topics and he has never abused me. I think it is all in how you present your arguement. I have always tried to be respectful here (sometimes coming up a little short but I still try) and in return, I have, in most cases, been treated respectfully.
Thanks Up2. I appreciate your fairness as opposed to TOT's unfounded defamation of moi.
Hud demontrates the ability to think. Tot, well he whether he knows it or not is in the 7th ring of hell fire.
"About government credit cards seb, I don't know about other states but GA has a tight control on such matters. No only will you be out of a job but spending time in the pokey for fraud."
I was thinking about the federal government's credit card use program as well. It is undeniable that welfare is designed and specifically appropriated to provide "the necessities of life" for the "needy." Just as they delineate rules for the use of government credit cards which are also funded by TAXPAYER DOLLARS, they should also define what "the necessities of life" are. (They have already defined who the "needy" are.)
IMHO - gambling, liquor, strippers, prostitutes, etc. ARE NOT and should not be considered "necessities of life" within the meaning of "government WELFARE." Also IMHO - if you are a PROVIDER of welfare (i.e., a taxpayer), you can spend your hard-earned money any way you want. But if you are a RECEIVER of welfare, you are getting it for a reason, and the purpose of those taxpayer dollars are to provide the "necessities of life" for you and your family until you GET OFF WELFARE.
Improper use of welfare funds should be defined and violations prosecuted. At the very least, welfare abuse should equal NO MORE WELFARE. Think of it as Jimmy likes to say: In the case of welfare, we are our brother's keeper. If MY brother was down on his luck or needed a helping hand, I'd probably loan him some money (let's call it "welfare") - knowing full and well that I'd never get it back since you rarely do when you loan money to family. If my brother then fails to buy the food/clothing or pay for the housing he needs and blows his money on liquor and lapdances, the next time he comes around HE WILL GET NOTHING FROM ME. Further, I might kick his butt for defrauding me out of the money in the first place.
The Bottom Line Revisited: Taxpayer-funded welfare should not subsidize what are commonly defined as VICES (gambling, liquor, drugs, prostitutes/strippers). There should be a preventive system in place, as well as provisions designed to punish offenders and even "recapture" the funds that were mis-spent.
In a perfect world I'd agree Seb but how in the world will you enforce it? If I am paying cash for my lap dance how are you going to prove it is TANIF money and that Jimmy didn't give it to me for my birthday to spend as I please? You could go to Jimmy and ask but how much of the tax payers money are you willing to spend to prove I am a liar?
This is my business! you brown noser
Your bussiness is to apread malicious lies? Your business is to muddly the water with unsubstainated BS? Your business is to attack rather and spread discord rather than engage in meaningful discourse? I agree whole heartedly.
I'd rather be know for mudding up the waters then as ass kisser... and your mouth is like a mud flap hanging behind a semi!
I was only talking about welfare funds disbursed via credit cards. Unfortunately, I don' t think you can do a dam' thing about cash transactions. But a step in the right direction might be to run the entire welfare system - federal and state - SOLELY with credit/debit cards. Then you COULD control it.
Seb the food stamps are on a type of debit card and have been for years. In GA the TANIF is on a EBT card, which is a type of debit card. Not sure what the other states are doing but I'm sure they're not far behind. It is more economical than sending out checks.
Thank you mini-murr for proving my point so eloquently.
There are so many people on public assistance in one form or another that it is virtually impossible to prevent abuse.
However as stated above the prevention of abuse should rest with those administering the programs.
Bureaucrats working in the various different public assistance governmental agencies see increasing numbers of clients as more job security.
As pointed out in comments above it is not the responsibility of business to determine where a customers funds were gotten from.
Bureaucrats think instantly of additional rules and regulations imposed on private business as the answer to all problems.
Liberty county is known as one of the most progressive counties in the state of Georgia.
Correspondingly Liberty County is known as the most difficult county in the coastal empire to survive with a small business.
"As pointed out in comments above it is not the responsibility of business to determine where a customers funds were gotten from."
That's why you take the business owners out of the loop by structuring the system so that they don't have to "say no" if somebody comes in and tries to use a government (state/federal) credit or debit card. It would be EASY. Here's how:
*First - you transition your system so that "welfare" disbursements can only be made using the credit/debit card the government issues. The transition might cost some, but in the long run the money would be recaptured through fraud prevention.
*Then - you categorize/code every business establishment in your automated/digitized credit/debit card system. As examples, you would classify places that sell food (grocery stores/restaurants, etc.) in one category; places like Wal-Mart and other "department" stores in another category; clothing stores in another category, and so on.
*Finally - you would give strip clubs, liquor stores, houses of prostitution (let's not forget Nevada), etc. - those places in which taxpayer-funded welfare should NOT be spent -a category code so that any credit or debit card transaction could NOT be accomplished in those establishments. Mechanically, the transaction would be blocked/prevented just like it is when somebody tries to use a credit/debit card when an account is empty or overdrawn. Bingo: NO SALE. The card could not be used, and the taxpayer funds could not be disbursed.
It really would be very simple for the government to do this.
Everyone has to keep in mind why welfare is provided in the first place. It is NOT provided to subsidize somebody's vices. It is NOT designed to be "free money" from the government that the recipient can blow any way they want. It is SUPPOSED to be used to facilitate the necessities of life and getting a person back on their feet so that they can be a productive member of society and GET OFF WELFARE. Blowing the money on vices - by almost all accounts - does nothing to help get a person back on their feet. In fact - vices tend to work the opposite as the actual necessities are ignored and families go hungry because somebody "needs" a lap dance or a bottle of booze.
I totally agree Seb. My point is, do you spend 3x more money than is being misspent on catching the very few who are abusing the system? I say we need to pick our battles. Yes it is outragous to have people abuse the sytem but what price are we willing to pay to catch them?
up2: Believe it or not, it probably would cost relatively little to implement the system - assuming they are going to credit/debit cards anyway - and input the codes that block the transactions. Then you (i.e., the government) would have the added benefit of knowing WHERE the money was going and could monitor whether it was being spent for its intended purpose. With the automated systems available today, my guess is that the costs would be FAR outweighed by the benefits.
I am not so sure Seb. I think such monitoring would be challanged in court. As it is, just drug testing them is coming under fire and costing millions to go through the court system.
No monitoring - just a system thst ensures that taxpayer-funded welfare dollars are spent as the program intends. All they need is a welfare system which disburses the money only via credit/debit cards. After that, the expense is next to nothing because an automated system is what contrlols how and where ther money is spent. As for the courts - nobody could successfully argue that spending welfare dollars on gambling, strippers, alcohol is what the programs intend.
There is no privacy when your on welfare... It grips me that my tax dollars are going to You and those thousands like You to feed your kids while I cannot claim you or your kids as dependents on my tax returns. I spend as much, if not more, every year than I can spend on my own kids. As I close, a simple " thank You" would be better than you getting on a pubic forum and bitch about the very people that are paying your way so you don't have to get up off your a$$ and find a job to pull your own weight for a change. As it stands now with Obama's payroll tax increase on 77% of workers, I have figured I am working about 3 days a week for you and yours not to have work..
"It really would be very simple for the government to do this."
It is not in the nature of bureaucrats to ever do anything in a simple way.
Private enterprise can perform in the simplest ways and does so in order to remain self sufficient.
There should be no privacy in regards to welfare.
There ought to be a taste of shame when receiving a handout.
Thats why the tramps coming down the road always asked first if they might do a chore for a meal.
They almost always were accommodated
even by folks of limited means themselves.
Sadly those days are gone with the new progressive ideology.
Sheran, who's way are you paying here? And an OBAMA tax? plenty of blame to go around for all of that huh.
And unless you make mega money the amount of that tax coming from your paycheck isnt enough that it makes it where you are paying someone's way. And that is a payroll tax. So not sure where you paying people's way comes in.
I have never seen so much hate for people on assistance. What is with that?
The "entitlement people" "welfare people", don't feed the animals, and even a "LET THEM DIE". OMG. Then all people who get assistance should have to have to taste of shame??? WTH Thats just messed up.
Did you NOT get the memo when Mitt, the Saviour to the Nation, got caught saying horrible things about half of this nation about who gets these "handouts"?? Do you really not know or not care? I mean are you not informed or ignore it?
The elderly, the disabled, and the working poor get nine/tenths of it.
The working poor. These are people who work their asses off for the "job creators" who pay their employee's so little and give them no benefits that they can't survive. They won't give up a dime of their fortune and do their employees right. So the only benefits these people get are called foodstamps and medicaid, that some of you hate so much. Well you are paying Walmart and others employee's benefits, it cost us billions.
Why does THAT not make yall mad!!??? It makes me mad to no end. The greedy is who I can't stand, not the poor. And I did NOT say the wealthy. I said the greedy. They are the REAL welfare queens. Regarding minimum wage,"If I could pay you less I would, but it's against the law" ~ Chris Rock. so true.
Ah, but then comes the liars who say they are disabled and are not. Some seem to be able to say who is and who ain't. TOT spoke of all the lying Veterans who play the system. Hit a nerve with people and he back tracked. But it is how he feels or it wouldn't have been said. I have a service connected disability TOT. Do I have a real disability all knowing one?? You know nothing about me. People fight hard ugly battles for your freedom and come back messed up in more ways than one. Some you can see, some you can't. That really made me sick you saying that about our Veterans, and about anyone who is disabled for that matter. You haven't walked in these people's shoes TOT, none of you have.
I will say just be glad it's not your behinds needing these things you hate so. I sure hope you thank God for that.
And why don't you pray for these people instead of putting them all down. But it seems the only prayer that I see over and over that is really needed is for the Dems/Liberals not to destroy this nation. I think Jesus would be more concerned for the hungry. Just sayin.
I see though there is an answer to it all. These people should simply go door to door and sing or some crap in exchange for food. smh and lol.
Sheran and Tot are cold souls with hearts full of hate. They long for the times when the disabled, homeless, and retarded where shut up someplace and people of color knew their place. They view the world from their privlidged white perspective with a total lack of empathy.
"I think they would say it is a privacy issue. Just playing Devil's Advocate here."
I should have made myself clearer from the beginning. My suggestion only works with a totally automated credit/debit card system for disbursing welfare funds (i.e., making purchases). In this case, the system would already record when and were the money was being spent. All that would be necessary is to set the system up so it automatically rejected any transaction which was included in the category of proscribed usage. As it is now, the government is already telling welfare recipients - in writing or by presumed knowledge of the law - the purpose they are receiving wefare assistance. My suggested system would put some teeth in the enforcement of what should already be happening, and would do it with little or no cost to the government (as I say - once you already have a credit/debit card welfare funds disbursement sytem set up).
To those who raise the "privacy" issue, I say let 'em squawk and try to defend why they are spending MY MONEY (taxpayer) welfare dollars given to them for food, clothing, shelter, education, training, etc. ON STRIPPERS, GAMBLING, ALCOHOL AND HOOKERS.
That dog won't hunt.
"There should be no privacy in regards to welfare."
I agree. Welfare is a PUBLIC program in which people spend PUBLIC (taxpayer) dollars to preserve the PUBLIC good (i.e., their own "welfare" is in the PUBLIC interest, otherwise they wouldn't be getting any money). There is no reasonable expectation of privacy in how taxpayer money is being allocated and being spent on PUBLIC assistance programs (and I don't care how much the Democrats in Congress claim otherwise.)
WE, THE TAXPAYERS, have a right to know how our money is being spent, and we have a reasonable expectation that it will be spent consistent with the purpuse for which the money is allocated. In the case of welfare, WE ARE NOT GIVING PEOPLE MONEY TO FEED THEIR VICES. We are giving it to them to feed their families, to put clothes on their backs and a roof over their heads. We are giving it to them to help them get the education and training they need to become contributing members of society and to GET OFF WELFARE.
Ok, still playing Devil's advocate here, how will you moniter them if they go to their local ATM, withdraw the money and go to the strip clubs, liquior stores to spend it? Again in principle I feel you are 100% correct.
No cash withdrawals - electronic transactions only. Obviously, when cash is used, you can control nothing. What I'm talking about is an entirely cash-free/plastic-only/totally electronic welfare transaction processing system. Most of the world has already gone "electronic" anyway. None of the major transportation companies, hotels, rental car companies, etc., will take cash anymore. Last time I checked, the convenience stores, gas stations, snack shops, etc., all appear to accept plastic. Of course, the Wal-Marts, K-Marts, mall stores, etc., all take credit/debit cards. The only time I carry cash is for use at the barber shop and to tip baggers at the commissary.
In this regard, my research revealed that of all small businesses in the United States, about 50% accepted credit/debit cards five years ago. Now I believe that number is closer to 75%, and it is increasing every day. I believe that any business that has a phone (which should be nearly all of them) COULD be a credit/debit card processor via this kind of device:
The small businesses I know that have decided not to accept plastic have done so because they don't want to pay the fees associated with electronic payment processing. I say - force 'em ALL (in a nice way) to accept government welfare credit/debit cards via electronic processing. If you want, you - the people/government - can fund the equipment (which is dirt cheap nowadays) and waive the processing fees for all government "welfare" transactions. In this way, it won't cost those businesses who aren't yet wired to get with the program.
But as I say, the benefits gained through reduced fraud and by steering recipients away from vices would far outweigh what would be required to implement the system. After all, we are losing MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of dollars right now across the United States in welfare fraud and in money not spent for intended purposes. Here are just a few examples from around the country:
I say - do the best you can to force "welfare daddy" to feed, clothe and shelter his family rather than blowing the money on booze, strippers and gambling. IMHO - the cost associated with "my system" would be a small price to pay in return for having taxpayer dollars spent as intended and fraud prevention.
Mechanically, the system would have every welfare recipient with a welfare "account." That account would be like any other bank account where monthly the "welfare dollars" would be deposited into it. You could have a single account where both state and federal agencies could make "deposits," but this probably wouldn't be done at the outset. There may be reasons NOT to do it. But at any rate, all welfare recipients could only spend their welfare dollars at places which accepted their "welfare card." Of course, you make sure that every welfare recipient upon entry into the program signs a statement acknowledging what welfare dollars can and can NOT be used for. But along with this - as I mentioned above - you have your "proscribed" merchants identified in the system (liquor stores, strip clubs, houses of prostitution, etc.) so that any transaction attempted at those locations are REJECTED by the system. I say again: Bingo - NO SALE.
It may sound somewhat complicated or expensive, but the equipment and electronic infrastructure necessary to make the system work is already in place. The new system would also probably have some other synergistic/cost savings benefits that I haven't thought of.