I for one would like to blame it on the news media! Try any local channel right now, that's all you hear! Let's blame in on movies, Thank God for Hall Mark channel... Next, the shows I really "Hate" reality shows Like Jersey Shores! So on and So on! TV alone teaches kids all the wrong ways to handle life! Where's the parents?
I agree that our children are desensitized by video games that promote violence and shooter scenarios. I do not agree that new gun laws would have any affect other than to take firearms out of the hands of law abiding citizens. Shooting children is currently against the law. That didn't stop this shooter from murdering 20 innocents. I dare say that a law against owning assault rifles would not have stopped him either. Also, according to media reports, the murderer had 2 hand guns in the school. LEO's found an assault rifle in his car. The answer is not to take away the people's right to keep and bear arms. The answer is to get back to the conservative god fearing values that made this nation great.
I don't advocate taking away the right to bear arms. I do advocate further restrictions on the types and quantities of arms citizens are permitted to bear. Law abiding citizens do not need an arsenal to feel secure in their homes. Those who think they do need help.
Also, there should be further limitations on fhe types/quantities of ammo and magazines. We can no longer afford to sit back and do nothing while claiming that "the right to bear arms" trumps all. These massacres will continue. We can't "repair" society; there is no pill to take to solve this problem. We have to get a handle on the tools of the mass murderer. The most heinous have been facilitated by automatic and semi-automatic weapons.
We should START there.
Take away the fire arms you just mentioned... Next instead of guns there will be more pipe bombs and Molotov cocktails and what ever else comes to mind... how are we going to stop that?
When my Grandfather declared that the price of cigarettes was "too high for him to buy them", he grew his own tobacco and made his own cigarettes. Same with me and the coffee drinks. When I didn't like paying so much, I learned how to make my own. We see it all the time with the drug traffickers. When a tunnel is shut down, another is built. When they repair a fence, they cut a new hole. Yesterday, I read they shoot drugs over the border using a cannon. While I agree that something needs to be done, if ammo is restricted, someone will just make their own. How did assault rifles get to be able to purchased by the general public anyway?
A good start would be to put the ten commandments back on all government buildings.
Put prayer along with God back in the schools.
Kids need to hear a daily reading of scripture and participate in or at least be subjected to hearing the Lords Prayer every morning, along with pledging allegiance to the flag.
When we let the liberals kick God out of the front door of the schools the Devil sneaked into the back door.
The back door was opened by liberals.
I came here to read Sebe's blog hoping against hope that I would not see this devolve into a blame game or more appropos, at least according to TOT, blaming the liberals. To recklessly and maliciouly associate the word liberal to this tradgedy speaks to TOT's utter and profound lack of perspective. If anything, TOT's irresponsible comments above go the very core of what is wrong in this...this...debate: the demonization of people.
As a self-admitted liberal, I find TOT's statement personally offensive and disgusting. It does nothing to help matters.
Shame on you, TOT. Shame on you.
So it turns out "allegedly" the 4 weapons that were used were guns owned by the mother of the shooter an obviously very sick individual. I'll stick my neck out and say if he hadn't been able to get ahold of guns for his "rampage" he would have used another tool & if the end he hoped (and surely in his mind he had a plan) to cause mass death & damage he "could" have done an Oklahoma City...
We really have to stop concerntrating on the tools of destruction and look at the perpetrators, by helping & caring for the "mentally ill" we're helping ourselves. JMPO
Guns don't kill people. Someone has to pull the trigger. Taking away the guns from law abiding citizens does nothing to curb this trend. As Sheran and lhomes correctly stated, the deluded, psycotic criminals will find other ways to accomplish their murderous missions. Having supervision at home for youths and fostering family values instead of the current moral terpitude should be the focus instead of blaming the whole thing on the evil guns.
I think we should focus not on the weapons used but how in these economic times, people can have better access to the mental services that they need.
TOT, the devil didn't need to sneak through the back door. People have opened the front door widely and welcomed him with open arms. I remember in some Vampire movies, the Vampire needed to be invited into the home first, then it killed you. Same with most other things. In every form of entertainment we have, there is no respect for life, and its getting worse. The young are exposed to more and more violence at younger ages. Its not just violence, its sex, greed and whatever other form of degradation that is out there and they feel it is their right. Music, games, tv shows, advertising, etc., all screams that we are in the bizarro universe. I once stated to my wife that I must still be in a coma from an auto accident in the 90's and this has all been a dream, because this world is BACKWARDS. Right is wrong, good is bad, stupid is accepted, the perverse is common and sought after, etc. I want to get off this ride. If the world is to end, bring it on. There is no respect for life (human or otherwise), no respect for family, no respect for community, no respect for country or environment. No respect!
Every day, almost 30 people in the United States die in motor vehicle crashes that involve an alcohol-impaired driver. This amounts to one death every 48 minutes.
There should be a ban on all cars.
Jimmy it certainly wasn't the conservatives that kicked God out of the schools.
Iholmes there seems to be far too many of the young people nowadays who also have little or no self respect. We have let hollywood get away with too much freedom of expression in movies ever since Hitchcook's Physco which started the moral slide.That was the beginng of shock movies.
The culture war started in our society in earnest with the TV and the liberation of our standards as the age of acquarius began to bear it's own fruit.
Now events like yesterday in that school are the results of our continuing willingness to tolerate different standards of morals within our daily routines.
My point was: It's too easy under our current system and with our current laws to obtain auto/semi-auto weapons and just walk into a school and start blasting.
This can not be allowed to continue. Let them make the pipe bombs and the molotov cocktails or try to stab or strangle 30 people before they are stopped. When they can murder that many in a minute or two with assault weapons or high capacity handguns, your system is BROKEN.
I predict that the good of the many will outweight the desires of the few in this case, and the groundswell for increased gun control will elevate with every additional massacre. And make no mistake - the slaughters WILL continue as long as a kid can grab a gun from his mom's "arsenal"; shoot her in the face; and then go shoot up all her students.
As a society, we can not continue down this path. I repeat: if somebody thinks that having a locker full of automatic/semi-automatic assault weapons and high capacity handguns is neccesary to feel safe and secure in their homes, they are part of the PROBLEM. Our system and the state of our society facilitates these tragedies.
Simply enforcing existing laws is not enough. How many more young children will have to be murdered before we come to grips with this problem? Perhaps a few in places like Hinesville, Richmond Hill or Ludowici will transmit the message that doesn't seem to be getting across.
"Responsible" gun ownership, "education," and "enforcement of existing laws" has not worked. Remember one definition of insanity: repeating the same action over and over again and expecting a different result. That's what we are doing when we say that we only need to enforce current laws or educate people to be responsible.
We have to face facts: by and large, our society is NOT responsible. We prove it every day. Just look at the newspaper headlines and check the stats on things like illegitimate birth rates. We don't teach responsibility at home or in the media any more. We are now reaping what we have sowed. Things need to change.
This blog can't be anything but a blame game. Some will rush to blame the weapons and they will be the liberals for the most part but their will be conservatives and moderates who will blame the weapons.
Please anyone who reads this don't ever allow them to disarm our people in this still great nation.
The blame rests directly on the sholders of our new liberal society and the decline in morality in all walks of life throughout America today.
IMHO, prayer does not belong in school. (1) If you have given your children a good foundation, then they will carry those vlaues, religion, morality, throughout the day. Like somany things, we want someone else to teach our children the things that should be taught at home. (2) Which christian teanets are we suppose to follow? When most people say that God should be here or there, they are usually speaking of their God, ie the three main protestant churches. For those who are not RCC, would you want your child praying to Mary or a Saint? What about other Christians who are outside those churches like the JW, LDS or SDA? (3) Prayer is a personal converstation between you and God. When is the last time you had a good intimate converstation with a close friend in a room full of people listening to your every word. No, faith, values and morality are something you carry inside you and not rote exerises made to make us feel better in a world that we feel is out of control.
Call it a blame game, but there is a problem that needs to be fixed. Fingers will be pointed, and CYA will be the order of the day. I wouldn't say that NRA members or those not in favor of more stringent gun control are any less part of the problem than our liberal society. There's plenty of blame to go around. Everybody will try to protect their special interests. But if the problem is going to be solved, we as a society have to realize that the system currently in place is NOT WORKING.
Tot: I am astounded by the sheer depth of your ignorance in politicizing this tradgedy and blaming it on liberals.
I will let you on a little secret, TOT: It is precisely BECAUSE of people like you that I write what I do. You are so righteous in your dam-nation it is nauseating. You Tot, represent the gridlock that the nation is sick and tired of. You and those like you are the problem here.
You throw a barrier down in front of any rational discussion.
I will try, though, to put this in terms even you can understand. You Tot, and people like you, that will politicize this horror only serve to CONSTIPATE the issue. I am sure you understand the word CONSTIPATE because you are indeed full of it.
Discussion is needed here and now, not intellectual speed bumps. Using this horrible event to bash liberals only ADDS to the problem. Do you see my analogy here, TOT? YOU are intellectually CONSTIPATED.
Things do need to be fixed. The far left needs to get off of any NO GUN talk and the far right, such as you, TOT, need to get off their anybody who can hear thunder and see lightening can have a gun position.
Also, there needs to be a vetting of gun purchasers. Why in God's name does ANYONE need an assault rifle other than "to assault?"
Bowel constipation can be fixed. I do not know how to fix your problem Tot. A plain ole-fashioned 'good ole day' enema just won't do the trick in your state of crainial mal-function.
I wish it did.
I think this is what TOT was trying to get at:
Now, remember what Paul Harvey said in the 60's:
Been reading and listening to a lot of news stories on this terrible event. Most articles are advocating for tighter gun control and for every gun to be registered. Gun owners are saying that this will make it easier for the gov't to take your guns and that criminals don't follow the rules. As far as registering guns go, I thought that I distinctly heard and read that the guns used in this crime WERE registered. I read elsewhere that the Mother had 5 registered weapons to her name. Her son STOLE them. That makes the gun control issue moot doesn't it?
Its been forever. Been looking around this morning. wow
They were registered to his mother and there may be ways for anyone disturbed to get these weapons, these were bought legally. If they were not legal to buy, I doubt the mother would have had them. And it was just the assault weapon that was the problem, it is the one he used to shoot those kids at point blank range multiple times. Most weapons used in these type of things are bought legally.
People worry that their guns will be taken, like all guns. All that is wanted really is stricter regulations and probably a ban on assault weapons. Won't hurt my feelings.
There surely needs to be more mental health treatment available. It is a real problem here. Most of our homless have these problems, our Soldiers come back screwed up as hell from stupid wars. So many people have problems. There is just not enough help. The suicide rate here is outrageous and things like this.
These things have gone on for so long. Remember the guy in the 60's who climed the clock tower and sniped people. There have been many more throughout history before him.
The taking God out of School thing. TOT, I guess others and Mike Huckabee seem to think is the problem. Westboro and more probably blame it on the gays like always.
In my whole 12 years never once did I attend group prayer in school. Aside from someone saying Grace before eating that was it. I see so many things about not saying the Pledge. It is still said everyday. Kids have the right to sit out if they choose. Kids can pray silently just not during classtime, they can read their Bible just not during classtime. So how is it really been taken out of schools???? Are teachers supposed to teach Christianity?? Is that what people want?? NO. You can't teach something in school that may not apply to some child. How fair is that? I too am offended with you blaming the Liberals TOT. wth Yes most all believe in Separation of Church and State. Its not hard to understand. And if you want to get down to it. They do not teach proper science. (In order not to offend someone who may be Christian).
Read John F Kennedy's Religious speech. He had it right. He believed in absolute Separation of Church and State. Smart guy. He refused to base any decision on his faith, unlike now, Here's his speech. Read it.
Teach your kids your Religion at home or your place of worship. That goes for ANY Religion. Aint that what Sunday "School" is for???
Those who say that, let me ask you something. And this is not how I feel but it is just as significant as your claim. Ok, Keeping God in schools would have prevented this... Please tell me how many cases of the TENS Of THOUSANDS of innocent CHILDREN molested in the Churches did he prevent??? I believe God was not kicked out of the Church.
Publicity is one of the main reasons this kind of thing keeps happenning. Anothet nut job wants to out do the nut job before him because he will see his name all over the news and his name will be remembered.
Sheran: I went to the politicalticker site you posted and saw Preacher Huckabee. FYI: Huckabee was weeded OUT of the presidential primary by his own Party process. He is a right wing nut job that fuels your and TOT's accusatory comments here. You both enhance gridlock.
Besides, what do you expect a preacher from Arkansas like Huckabee to say???
Froggy, mountain and others are contributing to trying to discuss this seemingly divisive issue in a positive way. Why cannot you and TOT do the same instead of pointing your lunatic right wing fingers at others and playing the blame game?
Sheran: the hard right, such as religious fanatics like Huckabee, congress woman Michelle Bachman, talk radio hosts like Rush Limbaugh, T.V. commentators like Sean Hannity, book writers such as Ann Coulter and Glenn Beck...all play to the lower echelons of the human soul. Their prey are the cretins who listen to them and BELIEVE their overly conservative hate driven rhetoric regarding liberals and moderates.
You and Tot are their listeners and they afford you a certain kind of perverted legitimacy in thier simplistic "answers" to sometimes complicated social and political problems. They provide you and Tot with easy answers to things you cannot or refuse to think thru.
@ Jimmy Mack: ALL I said was!
I think this is what TOT was trying to get at:
Your the one trying to bully everyone into your way of thinking. If bloggers don't say what you want to hear, you follow them from blog to blog and berate them... Seen it to many times! Your no better than Murr.
According to an article in USATODAY, Senator Diane Feinstein (D-CA) plans to introduce new gun control legislation on the first day of the new Congress in January. The law "will ban the sale, the transfer, the importation and the possession (of specified assault weapons). Not retroactively but prospectively. And it will ban the same for big clips, drums or strips of more than 10 bullets," she said on NBC's Meet the Press."
In the same article, Robert Spitzer, a political scientist at the State University of New York-Cortland and an "expert on the politics of gun control" is quoted as saying Friday's shooting could be a "game changer" when it comes to passing new gun laws":
"I put it on the side of being a slim possibility for a couple reasons — first because of the uniquely horrific nature of this particular shooting," Spitzer said. "All of these mass shootings are terrible but this shooting in particular seemed to be uniquely disturbing to Americans."
I don't think that we can continue the status quo and expect these massacres to stop. It will be interesting to see how much bi-partisan support Feinstein's legislation gets.
Sheran it is best not to argue with him or the woman. They are both bullies and for a long time their toilet mouthed commentary on this site has served only to belittle the medium.
Thanks for posting the reference to the Paul Harvey piece back in 65. I remember listening to it at the time.
By the way I neither watch nor listen to any of the commentators referenced by Jimmy Mack.
No Sheran you are wrong. I may be just a teeny wit better at meeting like with like than you and Tot. I am not sure.
In cased you missed it, Tot attempted to lay the guilt of the Sandy Hook school on my and other Liberals doorstep!! I will never let that sort of thing go by without some sort of rebuttal. I ain't trying to bully anyone here.
What sort of 'solutions' to this tradgedy have you or tot offered up? All I see is BLAME and fault from you two. If the argument gets too hot you can always leave the kitchen.
Like it or not, Sebe is right, the current process is flawed and there is more that can be done to regulate the process. With that said, it might need to focus more on the requirements for gun ownership. This could include mandatory firearms safety training, proof of the ability to secure when not in use, and education on levels of force before using deadly force. At the end of the day, there is not going to be an all out ban on firearm ownership. I will be candid, I own a fair amount of firearms to include a couple of assault weapons. Do I need my assault weapons? No, but I do enjoy shooting them.Do I load 30 rounds when I fire? No, it's a waste of ammo and unnecessary. The pistol I carry only holds 5 rounds. I am not a gun control advocate but do have to be honest and admit that if I was not able to purchase an assault weapon or high capacity magazine, I really dont have a good reason to say why I need it. The law abiding citizen doesnt hold too much water as almost all of the last massacures were commited by people that did not present that nefarious character trait that would have been a easy to identify the propensity to commit the acts they did. With that said, the moral fabric of our country is torn. The standard of what a "reasonable" or "good" person would do has changed as we have lost the ability see past our own situations. Even twenty years ago a "bad" person would not shoot kids. Even for that ilk, there were some things you just dont do. That is why it is not just a gun problem. However, because of the current state of society, some things need to change. I dont care for obama at all however, he would be negligent if he did not at least try to address the current issue.
I agree HMJC. As I stated above: the hard left needs to get of their NO GUNS position an the hard right needs to get off of their anybody who can see lightening and hear thunder can buy a gun.
The system is broken right now. We have to get away from Gridlock. I think this time something will be done.
I am a liberal and support the right to bear arms. I do not support the right to purchase assault weapons tho. I have several pistols and shotguns. I do not have a Bushmaster .223. I am immensely saddened that Adam Lanza got his hands on one.
I do think there needs to better control over assault rifes and large quanities of ammo but there needs to be better mental health services in this country. One death, be it gun, knife or bomb, due to someone not having access to the services he/she needs is unacceptable.
It goes without saying that the mentally in should not have access to ownership of firearms. However, in many cases it was readily avaialable in a home where a legaly vetted firearms owner possessess firearms. When you apply for a concealed weapons permit, one of the questions is if YOU have or have had any episodes of mental illness. It might be prudent to add if anyone in the home has a history of mental illness as well. The focus also must also stress responsible ownership and mandatory secure storage of firearms in the home. This is ust as much a people issue as much as the firearm itself.
*Yesterday, Ms. Liza Long published her personal experiences with her son "Michael" (fictitious name) in the wake of the Connecticut massacre. She titled her article: "I Am Adama Lanza's Mother," and once read you can easily visualize how "Michael" could become "Adam." See:
*Cut to the real Adam Lanza and his mom. As the details come out in drips and drabs, it's not too difficult to imagine how a cup of mental illness; mixed with a dash of paranoia; and relatively easy access to assault weapons can equal murder and mayhem in Sandy Hook, CT:
First you neexd to define what is mental illness. Some people go through bouts of depression and come out just fine. Hugh Laurie and Emma Thompson both have severe clinical depression. Patty Duke, Maurie Bernard (Sonny, General Hosptial), Catherine Zeta Jones. Me Gibson (well not a good example),Otto Klemperer (famous conductor and father of Werner Klemperer), Carrie Fisher all have been diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. Brooke Shields had severe depression and anxiety after the birth of her child. John Nash as an economic and math genius, who won Nobel Prize for economic sciences in 1994, had paranoid schizophrenia. Herschel Walker, a Heisman award-winning running back and former NFL player, has dissociative identity disorder. The list goes on. All of these people are productive individuals. Not the sterotypical person living under a bridge and talking to themselves. Just because a person has a mental illness does not make them a dager to themselves or someone else. If someone is mentally ill to the point that they would kill almost 30 people, they would do it with a knife, bomb, fire, poison or some other device. My point is to get people the help they need BEFORE it reaches that point. Go down to Gateway and try and get an apptointment. See how long it takes you. While you're down there ask about what services are available to you. Less than 15 mins with a doctor once a month. We can and must do better.
There is also talk this guy was "autistic". I do not know if that is true or not but autisim is not a mental health diagnosis. It is a neuro-developmental disorder. They do not take guns into schools and kill people. Just needed to get that off my chest.
I was using the term just as you did, and as described in the two articles I linked to. The problem is -you never know. My thought is that assault weapons just make ANY situation as described a potential for disaster.
Agreed Seb, but while I want services avaliable for those who need it, I am concerned about sterotyping and pigeonholing people.
Yes - I understand. I am more focused on the tools of mass murder, and what might be done to limit their availability to the "mentally ill" - if that's who they say are slaughtering these people. Treatment of mental illness is not enough - especially when some "mental illness" might not be evident until AFTER a massacre.
Assualt rifles and guns with high cartridge capacity are not needed for home protection unless there is an invasion by a foreign military.
We need to consider making it more difficult to purchase these types of weapons.
There seems to be plenty of young adults with "problems" in our society.
A retired pharmacist friend of mine called attention to the alarming amount of drugs administered to young hyper active kids. He also allowed as how when we were growing up those hyper-active kids were sent to the principal's office or simply spanked by the classroom teacher.
...and it does look like change might be on the way. The following are extracts from a CNN article at:
*According to Senator Mark Warner (D-VA) - who had previously received an "A" rating from the NRA for votes consistent with their agenda - the recent CT massacre was a "game changer."
*"This awful massacre of our youngest children has changed us, and everything should be on the table," Sen. Joe Manchin, a conservative Democrat from West Virginia and "proud gun owner," said Monday in a statement.
*In an opposing view, Texas Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert said on "Fox News Sunday" that if school principal Dawn Hochsprung had an assault rifle in her office, she could have killed the shooter.
"I wish to God she had an M-4 in her office locked up -- so when she heard gunfire, she pulls it out and she didn't have to lunge heroically with nothing in her hands," Gohmert said. "But she takes him out, takes his head off, before he can kill those precious kids."
I'm sorry, but making our elementary schools a battleground by arming the staff and faculty with assault weapons IS NOT the answer. The President has indicated his willingness to consider reinstatement of the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004. They should also ban high capacity magazines and limit the stockpiling of automatic/semi-automatic weapons and ammunition.
We'll NEVER be able to predict before-the-fact the massacres which are determined after-the-fact to be perpertrated by the "mentally ill." Consequently, the only solution is to get a handle on the tools of mass murder.
Our elected officials appear to be getting the message.
One thing is certain, change is immienent. Hopefully it focuses on reality and the real need for change. Not agendas, shooting from the hip legislation, just a direct approach to an existing issue...
One suggestion is (if the Government can afford it) is to commission a School Police Department to man the entrances and exits of the "ALL" Schools in addition patron the halls of the schools. The courts have it, so add police officers to the schools too. Some Cities have them already. (Example: Baltimore City Public Schools) There is nothing wrong with the current gun laws in my humble opinion. Restricting certain firearms does not solve the problem here folks. The criminals get the weapons anyway regardless what stringent laws we have on the books, or what new laws that has been or will be passed, and enacted. The only people that this will effect (By changing the gun laws) is the law abiding citizens.
...for today, I say: DECK the halls....
Merry Christmas, Sporty. The best of the bowls are coming up. Have a great holiday season.
Yep Sebe. I'm standing down today. Being empty nesters, taking wife to movies to see the Guilt Trip then to Ruby Tuesdays for a scotch and a steak.
Merry Christmas, Sebe.
BTW: Funk pegged you correctly. You are the best blogger on these pages.
Just saw your post. Jimmy. Hope you and the lady enjoyed the movie and dinner (and the scotch). Merry Christmas - and all the best for 2013.